Welcome to a Marginalia episode of David Behavior. I'm Beth.

And I'm Marie.

And today's David Behavior is bleaching your hair and changing your whole accent to emulate a movie star.

Hell yeah. I'm going to do that after we record.

Who are you emulating, David?

Oh my gosh. Yes.

Yeah. So this is a very special one year anniversary edition of the podcast because it's been a year of this wonderful podcast and we're going back to our roots. And the reason we're doing a movie is because the. As we discussed at great length before this started, there is no Prometheus novelization in English and Marie is going to die with that knowledge.

I'm going to be on my deathbed and I'm going to look off into the middle distance and I'm going to mourn the fact that there was never an English version of the Prometheus novelization. Why? We don't know. We couldn't find it. Alan. Someone emailed. Alan Dean Foster, who we have covered one of his books before, AKA Alien Covenant. He does a lot of the novelizations for the Alien series. And when they emailed him and asked if he was ever contacted to adapt Prometheus into a novelization, the response that they got. And, and this is a user on a forum who posted this. I'm believing them when they post this, but you know, people on the Internet sometimes say things just for funsies. But according to the response they got from Mr. Foster, it was evening. Nope, I was never contacted about that. Hollywood Regards, Ellen. So. So maybe there was like some legality or something. But we. There's no. We just do not know. And so because neither Beth nor myself can read Japanese and because every single fan translation that was in the works has either been abandoned or disappeared from the Internet, we watched the movie again and had just a grand old time. It was great.

On my birthday. Yeah, it was my birthday.

It was your birthday in person. We got to hang out in Detroit.

The Windy City.

Wait, isn't that Chicago? Yes, the Motor City. There we go. Yeah, we went to a fountain pen show during the day and then that evening hung out in the hotel and watched Alien. Prometheus, the movie that truly started this all. As you might also be able to tell, this is a little bit more of a. Just a fun, silly episode less. We're gonna. It's more casual. It's gonna be a lot more like our Marginella marginalia episode for the Ruins. The movie.

The Ruins. The movie.

The Ruins. The movie.

The book Movie, book, movie. What if.

Do they ever. When they make. Sorry. When they make a. Like, when they adapt a book to. To a movie, do they ever make then a novelization of the movie version?

I'm sure that's happened.

I desperately want to find one that fits so that we can do both versions and see how they differ.

Book, movie, book.

Yeah. Wait, no, no. Book, movie.

Wait.

Book, movie. Book, movie.

Book.

Yeah. Book, movie.

Yeah. Insane. Okay.

It's gonna be great.

It's gonna be great.

But in this case, it's just the movie.

It's just the movie.

And what's this movie all about, Beth?

This movie? The elevator pitch is that the crew of the Prometheus are following a star chart to seek the origins of humanity at the behest and at the funding of our friend Mr. Weyland, who's an old, old man. He wants to live forever.

He's so old.

And he has one child, and that's David Charlize Theron.

No. David's the closest thing he's ever had to his son. What are you talking about?

Yes, truly, David is the closest thing he's had to a son. Yeah.

Yeah.

And they find more and also less than what they bargained for because it's really good to go into a mission like this having specific expectations for what you're looking to find.

Very extremely specific expectations that you will then spiral if they are not met. That's normal. Exactly. That's exactly what you should do.

You should do that as a scientist.

That is what.

And then threaten your wife and get really drunk.

Everyone in this movie is not great. For the most part.

No.

But especially Holloway.

Especially Holloway. Yes. Oh, Boise. All right, well, that is why we're doing this, why we have done this.

It's not the full reason why we have done this.

Like, there's. Why have we done this? Why have we done this?

So, as we touched on in our first episode with Covenant, the Alien franchise, and specifically the movies featuring David, are the reason why our podcast is called David Behavior. We love David. He is an awful, awful robot man. But we love him very much.

We love him. He was made to be awful. It's not his fault.

Exactly. And although there are a lot of issues we will be talking about, much like Covenant with. With Prometheus, the glowing center of this movie is David, and it led directly the beating heart of this franchise is the robot.

Is the robot does not have a heart.

And I mean, honestly, though, that. That fits with the Alien franchise overall.

Truly.

Yeah, truly. But. But these movies Led directly to this podcast because at one point we had a silly little thread over on Discord called David Behavior. Of all the movies that were kind of like David in Prometheus for Beth to watch.

Yeah, yeah. Was given a vibe and then I said, give me movies to watch.

Yes.

I have not seen a lot of horror movies. Show. Show me the ones.

Show me the way. And now you've seen. I watch them many horror movies.

Yes. Yeah. The one I haven't watched that's still on the list from that thread specifically is Martyrs. I still haven't watched that one. That's a rough one.

That's rough. Yeah. So.

So, yeah, that's why we're doing it.

That's why we're doing it.

That's why we love the game.

Okay, I'm alive. I'm alive. I had to drink some water. Oh my goodness.

Let's get into this movie, why don't we?

Heck yeah, let's get into it.

This movie opens with Jesus, AKA an engineer, AKA a giant alien muscle alien man, very muscled, very flat faced, gray, drinking some black liquid. And the body goes into a waterfall and dissolves, which ultimately I guess creates life on Earth is what we're led to believe.

Yeah, that is the origin of life on Earth.

Sure.

So ancient aliens is true, right?

Exactly. That's the conclusion of the movie.

And then a bunch of years later.

A bunch of years later, they find evidence of this engineer, this kind of alien in a bunch of different cultures on Earth. And it seems like to me they're like, don't go there. But also they do have coordinates.

Yeah, it's very bizarre because Elizabeth Shaw and Charlie Holloway keep finding the same star map across multiple cultures and they all depict this giant figure pointing up at these stars. And so it really seems like they want people to go there. But in the context of the movie and with the other information they find, it seems like they don't want people to go there. So these alien Jesuses are very confusing, I will say that from the top.

Like, some of the images are like, no, don't. Like they're like, stop.

Yeah.

And some of the images are just.

Like pointing, like, look, look. Oh, that's where we come from. Or whatever. It's. Yeah, it's really weird. So Sean Holloway, though, choose to interpret it as an invitation like they do.

Yes.

Yeah.

And Holloway has a very specific. He wants to meet his maker. And he's like, this is going to go exactly how I think it's going to go.

I. Because as a scientist, you should just have like already set in stone what you want, your expectations and what you want and not a desire to actually learn the truth.

Right. So we, we do open on David though, in the ship and he's strolling along, he's watching Lawrence of Arabia, dyeing.

His hair, bleaching his hair, practicing his.

British accent, practicing his British. It's, it's. I, I love it. It's so unhinged. Why, why is he doing this?

Because we had watched. Because we had watched and read Covenant more recently. I forgot that he did not originally have a British accent.

Yes.

And I was just like. I, I forgot that David was just like, no, I'm British now and blonde.

Like yes, yes, watching. I'd watched Covenant afterwards and yeah, it was the same thing. Lex was like, oh yeah, he's British. I'm like, yeah, he's not actually British. That's a put on accent. He was like, oh yeah, I forgot about that. It's like, yeah, it's so, so wild.

But I love that form. He is self actualizing on this long journey.

He learned some languages as well.

Yes. Because his, his whole goal is to be able to communicate with these, these engineers, which is what Sean Holloway called them, I believe.

Yes. So yeah, he's learning a bunch of languages. He's checking in on the embryos.

There's no embryos in this. Oh, right.

There's no. Yeah, there's no. Wait, no. Yes, there are, aren't they?

Are there? No.

There's an embryo drawer in this one, isn't there?

There's something similar to the embryo drawer, but it's not.

You're right, there's no embryo drawer, but.

It was, we did joke during the movie. Oh, that's why he, that's why he knew how the embryo Dr. Worked. Cuz there is something in this movie that looks very similar.

So no embryos on this one. I forgot. Right. There's no reason to have embryos on this, this mission.

But he is checking in on the crew.

He is checking on the crew sort of embryos. They're in their little.

Yeah, they're in their little embryo pods kind of.

Yeah, they're cryopods.

They're cryopods. And he's watching dreams and I find this.

Oh yeah, he loves watching dreams.

Well, and I find this so fascinating because during Covenant, this is, this is basically how Covenant opens, but with Walter. And there is already such a different vibe between David doing these actions and Walter doing these actions.

Yes, he's watching Shaw's dreams, but wasn't he also watching the daughter's dreams as well.

He first starts with vicar's dreams.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think the idea is that, like, she is the daughter and she is like. So he's sort of learning as much as he can about Wayland and things like that.

Yes.

Because he's part of his sort of fascinating.

And I think that's where the, like, the Lawrence of Arabia inspiration for the Heron accent is very clear. But I. I do also think it's because Vickers is blonde and assumably Wayland was blonde when he was young. And David's like, I'm his son now, bitch.

Like, well, and we see in Covenant, we already know in the opening scene, like, he already sort of knows his, like, his value to Wayland. He already knows from the minute he opens his eyes that he's better than Wayland. And we get the, like, same.

You.

Know, Wayland in Covenant having the. The tea beside him on the table and being like, david, bring me the tea. Yep. And then, like, Vickers does the same thing.

Yes.

And is like, david, bring me tea. And there's like a power play.

Absolutely. Do you. So at this point in the movie, they don't reveal, quote, unquote, reveal that Vickers is Waylon's daughter until, like, halfway through the movie. Do you think that adds anything, us not knowing at the beginning? I don't think it does. Really.

No. I think it's weird, this scene that it reveals it. I don't know. I think it's weird.

It is.

I think that it doesn't make any sense to hide it. I think it makes sense for her to hide it from the crew.

Yes.

I wouldn't want them to know. But from the audience, I don't think it makes any sense. I feel like it gives us more of an insight into her character if we know.

I agree.

And maybe more sympathy.

Yeah. It explains a lot of her actions. And so this watch, obviously, I knew the twist from the previous times I'd seen it. So it. Yeah, it does make me a lot more sympathetic towards her knowing where she is coming from and why she acts the way she does.

Well, in hearing the speech from Wayland, because he's on the ship, but we don't know, you know, whatever. The audience doesn't know that he's on the ship, but they play a speech from him being like, this is why you're on this ship. And.

And this is David, the closest thing I have to a son.

Right. Hearing David or hearing Waylon say, this is David, the closest thing I have to a son. And sort of panning over to Vickers, it makes more sense. And also you're more sympathetic to her as like a character because you're like, fuck. Like, that's like, that's ice cold. To say that knowing that your daughter is going to be there.

Absolutely. Yeah. It's really interesting. And this is one of the reasons why I do mourn the fact that there's not an English translation, because I feel like this is stuff that we could have had so much more insight into her character because I feel like also, and this is getting further in, but this is also a less put together episode. So I feel like Vickers is overall a wasted character. I feel like they kind of built her just sucks. Yeah. And it sucks because I'd like her to be a more like involved antagonist and incompetent antagonist. Yes.

Yeah. Like, she has the potential to actually be like, powerful and actually make a difference.

Yeah.

And like have that interesting power play come into effect, whereas I feel like it doesn't. She just gets like smushed by a ship. And like, that sucks.

Yeah. And even, even in the scene where we learn that she is Waylon's daughter, the cut that made it into the final cut of the movie, I feel like does not do as well as the cut one that we watched where she like, has that anger and she tells him, like, it's your time to die, old man. Basically. I feel like that's a better scene and take with her than the one that ended up in the movie.

Yeah. I like her having that anger and having that kind of motivation. Yeah, it's a much better character motivation. I feel like the jealousy with David is fine, I guess, but I think there is.

It'S not enough.

I think that. Yeah. And I think that also she doesn't have enough of motivation to be on this ship, frankly. Like, her dad is here. I get that. But also, if her motivation is for him to die, then, like, stay on Earth and like run his company. Like, I feel like, yeah, he goes on the ship, that's going to be his last mission. Like, he's not making it back.

I, I, I feel like they tried to cover that with like, oh, I didn't want to stay around to deal with the power struggle or whatever. And it's like, then who's in charge now? Like, who did you.

What's, like, what's your motivation then? Like, why are you here?

And in the cut scene, it seems to imply like, well, I just want to watch you die, which is kind of Funny. Like, I kind of. I kind of. I'm into that, but they cut that, so we can't even look at that as our motivation. Instead, it's just like, well, I wasn't going to stay around and deal with that while you ran off. And it's like, okay, why not?

And it's like the. A sibling thing with David. Like, I feel like, well, you brought David with you, so now I have to go.

Yeah. And. And that feels, though, very.

She's a shallow.

She's a late 30s, early 40s woman. She doesn't need to be that kind of competitive with the robot.

Like, well, and also, like, David is going to live a very long time. There's no reason. Like, there's just no reason for that.

No.

It's very likely that she won't make it back on the mission this long.

Absolutely not.

So, like, I don't know, it feels very weird, especially because, you know, in other alien situations, like, I'm thinking of the alien RPG or whatever, you have the corpo. It's like she seems to fulfill that sort of corpo role, but not really, because you have the captain already and you have the corpo and you have the, you know, David.

I almost feel like David fills both the synth and the corpo role in this.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I feel like she's sort of left out in that way, like, without a lot of power. So it just feels like it's weird that she's there. I don't know.

I agree.

Just wasted, wasted, wasted potential.

And what's even crazier to me is you're talking about them watching this video of Waylon because they don't know he's on the ship either. Nobody on this ship except for Sean Holloway even know what their mission is, other than, obviously the Weyland Group. Like, it's. All their crew is. Like, oh, what are. What are we doing out here? We have no idea. We've just been in Cryo for 10 billion years. Like, I.

It is crazy, insane. Yeah. It makes no sense. Like, why wouldn't they be sold on this? Why wouldn't they know what the deal is? Why wouldn't they have Anyway? Yeah, it's. It's wild that they would be briefed like this on the ship. When you be briefed before you go, that you can decide whether your skills would be useful or not.

Exactly.

And, like, especially on a science mission like this. Like, this is very clearly like a science vessel.

Yes.

It feels like you should, rather than just a random crew. I Don't know.

And I can't decide if that is lazy writing or if that is Weylon Yutani being lazy in the universe. Know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they did something. I mean, they try. Not that AVP is canon, but like kind of reminds me of AVP when they go to the pyramid or whatever.

Yeah. And they don't really tell anyone what's happening.

They.

They do at the very least say, oh, there's a. There's a structure there that we just discovered. Like that they don't go any further. But at least the people know. Ah, you need my archeology skills. Like in this they know what skills.

They'Re going to be using.

Exactly.

Yeah. It seems like it's the first time they're hearing about it.

It truly does.

Wild.

Which is. And when Sean Holloway are talking about, oh, meeting our makers and blah blah, they are very. It is very interesting to me as well because I. They are archaeologists, which I, in my head, like I categorize kind of amongst scientists and stuff. And I do know that they're. They have the humanities in there as well with archaeology and stuff obviously. But I feel like Sean Holloway feel more like. Don't get mad at me listeners, please. They feel more like creationist museum archaeologists than.

Oh yeah, like religious real.

Yeah, exactly.

For sure.

They have so much weird religious zeal about this, about meeting their makers. And the crew is immediately like, what?

This is stupid. Yes, because it is stupid. Like I. Yes, it is stupid. And it's because. It's because Ridley Scott was like, this is fucking Jesus and I didn't make.

It into the final cut. We do keep calling them Jesus, which is really funny. What we are referring to, audience, is the fact that there was an idea of the reason that 2000 years ago these engineers were going to destroy us is because 2000 years ago humanity made a very big oopsie doopsie about somebody that they killed and that that person was actually an engineer named Jesus. Yep. But that didn't make it into the final cut. But it informs a lot about it.

Does Holloway and Shaw's characters. Exactly. Yeah. It just feels like their characters are just so weird to me. And they don't read as science scientists.

No.

Yeah. They definitely read more as like religious zealots.

Yes, for sure.

They've just again like going into it with an idea of what they're going to find and Holloway being so devastated when that's not what he finds. It's. It's bananas to me, like, so bananas. Imagine Going to like finding a dinosaur bone and being. And, like, being so devastated when it's not like a T. Rex or something. It's like. No, but it's a different one in the. You found like, a Stegosaurus or whatever?

Found dinosaur. And they're like, my life is over.

I get to talk to it. I get to talk to it.

They're dead. And also. Okay, so sorry, we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.

It's fine.

Let's get the ship onto the planet.

They go onto the planet, which is ALV223. That's right. Oh, yeah. It's also 2089. Yes. So it is a not so distant future from now.

From right now.

So. Yeah.

They find.

They go.

They find.

They go into, like, the surface and it's, like, very barren. It's not like Covenant.

No.

At all. It's very barren. And they find a big structure.

Yeah. The way they find the structure is very funny to me because it's not even like the. The pilot or anyone who notices it. It's. It's Holloway hovering over the pilot's shoulder like a psycho and going, nature doesn't build in straight lines. And pointing out.

Because nobody is competent on this crew.

No.

So, like, so is if it's. Fifield is the one with the. The puppies.

Yes, Fifi. Fifi has his drones.

Yeah.

So he's the rock guy. Right. That's his thing. And then Milburn is the biologist.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Which is even stupider. Yeah. So Milburn's the biologist, Byfield. And then Shaw goes as well as Holloway.

Yeah.

Which is the four of them, I think it's.

And David.

And David.

Right.

So they find. They go in and Fifield has these, like, drones that he lets fly to map the place out. This is important because he maps. He specifically maps the place out.

Yeah, but.

And then that's.

Beth, I don't think you understand how maps work because.

Right, you're right.

We'll get there. We'll get there. And then they start saying, like, David just starts messing around with stuff and plays a holographic. Like a holographic recorder of big alien guys running away.

Yeah. So. And then, like, getting squished by a door.

Yeah. And they find a body under the door.

Yes. So they find this head and there's going to be a storm. So they're like, we should go back.

But they find something else along with that head, Beth.

Oh, yeah. They find ooze.

They find.

And like, urns with ooze oozy urns. And David's like, this is pretty fucking great.

This is pretty sick. I think I'm gonna just. I'm just gonna grab one of these. Like, no one's paying attention to anybody. Like, nobody is at this point.

Fifield and Milburn have wandered away.

They've wandered away because they crit. Failed their sanity roll after seeing the dead alien. Is the doctor here too? I forgot about her.

Oh, maybe.

I think she might be here too.

Yeah, I think so.

But regardless, they were like, we're done with this. We're gonna leave. We're leaving, they say. And the man who has been mapping the tunnel and the other man leave. And they definitely make it back to the cars.

Oh, my God.

And they definitely. The ship.

As far as the rest of them know, they've made it back to the cars.

Yeah.

And.

And taken one of them.

Right, Right. So then when they take the stupid head and the vials, they go back because of the.

The storm.

The storm that is coming imminently. There should be one less car. Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. But they're just like, no, they must be already at the ship.

So then, yeah, they go back and they almost lose the head. And there's a big storm.

Like, shards of glass are flying around and stuff. Like, it's crazy.

Yeah. And David saves Shaw because Shaw ran.

Out into the glass storm after this head. Holloway, I feel like, is already. Like, he's already showing signs of defeat.

Yes. And he hates David also. Yeah. He's, like, rude to David, which is insane to me. Shaw's nice to David.

Yes.

Which that is noted.

She might come to regret later.

I mean, I don't think David cares. I mean, he cares to a point because he didn't put his finger in her.

In her drink. But so. So when they get onto the ship, finally, after David has to save Shaw from the glass storm, they're like, oh, where's Milburn and Fifield? They should be back by now. And the captain's like, they didn't come back. What are you talking about? Cut to these guys just wandering lost in these tunnels.

Yeah.

With the guy whose drones are mapping it out. How? Why? Because there's. There's two answers. One, Fifield can run the drones, but doesn't know how to read them. Map. Or two, this technology is super stupid and does not locally store the map data for him and only sends it back to the ship.

But he, like, refers to it later. Yeah, he has it on his, like. Like his watch or whatever.

Exactly.

It Does.

So it's one. They're stupid and they just wandered around until they got lost.

Yes. But they die very grisly deaths there. The captain, who is Idris Elba, whose name I don't remember. Janik.

Janik.

Wait.

Something like that. Yannick Janik.

He's the quirky one who put out a Christmas tree. Christmas tree. Because Jesus. It's Jesus's birthday.

Sorry. Yeah. To get back to that, when the crew wakes up and he puts out that Christmas tree, Vickers gets so mad over him putting up a Christmas tree, and it's like, why are you so mad about that? I think that she never got anything for Christmas as a kid.

Probably went to David. Yeah. Janice just, like, casually watches them on the. The screen also. This is. We also don't know. They also take their helmets off almost immediately.

So the biologist side. The biologist. So the whole group that when they first get inside this place, they're like, oh, he has breathable oxygen. Let's not even give thought to the fact that there might be airborne, you know, contamination or funguses or anything, or maybe something.

Something that can't be detected by their filters because it's. They're on an alien planet.

Yeah. Everyone immediately takes their helmet off.

Immediately. So fast.

And then when they were so ready.

To take them off, they were.

They basically threw them to the ground. And then when Milburn and Fifield come across a weird snake thing, which is literally just a penis with a vagina on its face, they shove their face down next to it.

Immediately, immediately, immediately.

And immediately the biologist, the man who should know better, reaches out to touch it and oh, my gosh. Surprise. It bites him.

Like what? Crazy, sir. Yeah, it goes into his helmet. It's crazy. He. Yeah, he dies.

He dies horribly.

He dies horribly. And then Fifield falls into the ooze and he gets oozed and he turns into an abomination.

He. Yeah, his. How does his helmet melt? Does it melt onto his face, or am I thinking of a later scene?

Yes, it does.

Okay. Is it just the ooze melts his helmet.

I believe. No. Doesn't he try and cut the snake?

He tries and cut the snake and it has the acid blood. That part actually, though, really got me. When his helmet melts because it, like, the plastic just, like, sinks down onto his face and starts burning it. It was awful. It was pretty gnarly.

Yeah. So this is the thing. The cameras. Yeah, the cameras.

Yeah.

That are going back to the ship are in the helmets, and everyone's taking their helmet off. Wild.

I don't know.

So, anyway, so they're dead, and Janik and. And Vickers are flirting or whatever, and they hate each other.

And meanwhile, Shaw is doing horrible science experiments. So stupid, the fact that the doctor is taking orders from this archaeologist to electrocute a decapitated head to simulate life. No masks on. They are wearing masks, but they are pulled down so they can get right up there backwards, too. Yeah.

Oh, there's no way to pull them up really quickly either.

And they're just raw, dogging the air around this obviously infected head. There's, like, weird black veins going through it.

And, like, Holloway's moping.

He's drinking and moping.

He's in there.

He's upset because obviously every single engineer is dead. And I'm like, bro, this could just be a military outpost for all you know. Like, why do you assume, A, that they're all dead, and B, why does them not being here for you to immediately question, like, break your entire existence? You just proved they existed. Like, you just found evidence of what you have been, like, talking about, and your reaction is to whine and drown your sorrows in vodka. Like.

In Holloway, he's so dumb.

Why? And he's so mean. He's so mean to everyone. And so when David. When David walks in. When David walks in with his little. He dips his finger in this vial of ooze and is like, well, I know what I'm about to do. When he, so funny, fully in front of Holloway's face, dips his entire finger in his drink and hands it to him, Holloway does not even hesitate before just chugging it. I'm just.

I can't even. So, like, okay, so there's one. The, like, vibe I think they're going for is that he doesn't suspect David as, like, a threat. You know, he's like, oh, he's just like a robot. Blah, blah, blah. But, like, genuinely, David has been so, like, threatening and, like, so suspicious this whole time. Like, there's no reason for you to be like, oh, he's harmless. It's like, no, he's been so suspicious and weird.

And why.

Why would you think he's harmless?

Holloway is the type of guy that really strikes me as. So I was watching a Reddit story yesterday with my roommate, and we were, like, losing it because this guy, his whole thing was like, I'm a big hero, strong guy. And so when him and his girlfriend got mugged, he tried to, like. The girlfriend was just like, yeah, here, take my wallet. And he was like, oh, what? No, I think I can take you. Blah, blah, blah. Like, he immediately tried to instigate this fight with the guy with a knife. And I'm like, that's Holloway. It's Holloway. He's. He's the one who's going to instigate a fight with the guy with a knife. Like, absolutely crazy.

Yeah. Because the world revolves around him and there's nothing else going on.

No.

Oh, my God. And then. Yeah. So he drinks the ooze and goes to be mean to Shaw and then have sex with her.

I.

In a very uncomfortable scene. So uncomfortable.

It's better than the deleted scene, which I recommend not watching that specific.

Don't do it.

It's awful. But yeah, even in the one that made it into the cut, I was just like, yeah, that's me. Me personally, I love to be yelled at and insulted to get in the mood. Like, what?

Yeah, yeah. So gross. And like, her sterility comes up like.

Yeah, that didn't need to be. That didn't need to be in the movie, like, at all.

But it's because of, like the alien thing, Right? Part of the alien thing is like.

I feel like suddenly being three months pregnant is still pretty crazy even if you're able to get pregnant under normal circumstances.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

There is no reason. No, no, you're right. There's no reason for it. It's just. Yeah. Gross.

It's weird. It gets brought up and then obviously the solution is sex. Like, I just.

Gross, weird, gross, weird, weird, gross, weird, gross. Yeah.

And then our boy comes back. Yeah. But wait, no, first though, they explode the head. Sorry, we forgot to mention that.

Oh, that's right.

They electrocute it so hard that it explodes. And they barely get it into containment in time because once again, they are just open air mouths next to this alien head as they electrocute it until it explodes.

Why? Why did they.

So now they don't even have. Now they don't even have a head to study.

Like, now they.

They don't have anything. And then I believe the crew goes back and finds Milburn's body.

Yeah.

Once the storm.

Once the storm clears, they're like, we should go back for them because we didn't, you know, their communications got cut off. We gotta go find them.

Yeah.

So they go back and I think this time Vickers goes, right.

No, no. Because she refuses to let. She refuses to let Holloway back on when they get back. Oh, you're right. So she is still on the ship, but they. It's. I think it's the Dr. David Holloway, Shaw. And I think that's it at this point.

Yeah. Yeah, you're right.

But David immediately wanders off again, which is so funny. Every time they go into these ruins, he just, like, wanders off and, like, nobody cares because he's just the room. Nobody cares.

He doesn't announce where he's going or, like, anything like that. It's like no sense of, like, propriety or, like, like protocol or anything like that. It's just like, whatever. Who cares?

You can do what he wants. But he does find a engineer in stasis, in, like, what is clearly like a control deck of some sort.

He finds those, like, globby control buttons.

Yeah, the big squishy control buttons.

Like, gushers.

I'm glad they aren't like gushers and, like, sticky and weird.

They look sticky to me.

They just look.

They look nasty and stick.

They look like those knee do. It's like the, like, stim toy. That's like a squishy little ice cube or kind of to remind me of. But this is where David picks up his love of the flute, Beth.

It's true. You're right.

Because apparently the engineers controlled their ship via flute, which is a choice.

Yes. So they have to go back, though, because Holloway's sick. And also, do they find Fifield?

No, not yet. But they. They go back to the ship and Vickers, for the first time, someone in this crew is like, no, he's infected with something. He's not coming back in my ship. Then she burns him to death with such a choice.

Such a choice.

She's like flamethrower.

But, like, then Holloway is like, do it. Do it. And it's like, why?

Just leave.

Why is that the option?

Just leave? Yeah.

It's so weird. It's like, yeah, burn me to death. For sure, for sure, for sure, for sure. That's how I want to die.

I will say, like, we skipped over some of the. Like, he has, like, weird stuff happening. His symptoms are really crazy. At one point, a worm falls out of his eye.

Oh, I actually. I think I closed my eyes because I didn't like that.

That's so valid. It's gross. It's real icky. But he burns to death. And Shaw is understandably upset.

Yes.

And then David, who has come back.

I mean, understandably is kind of. That's fair.

That's fair. But then David understand David once again, being like, I don't know why David's the one doing a medical scan on Shaw, except for the fact that I. I Feel like maybe David was listening at the door and knew that they had sex. Because, like, why else would he know to check if she's pregnant?

My God. Yeah.

But surprise. Shaw's three months pregnant.

Such a specific thing to check for.

Yeah.

It's not like that's a routine medical thing. My God.

And she freaks out. Understandably. David wants to. Like, he knocks her out. Like he's trying to put her back into stasis immediately. Because his whole goal is to bring back this little guy. And then. Oh. Gasp. Surprise. Shock.

Wayland. Old man Wayland. Elderly.

Yeah. Elderly.

Guy Pearce.

My God. I still don't understand why they had to do old man makeup on Guy Pierce instead of just getting an old man to play Waylon. You can't even tell that it's him.

I'm sure you could find an old man that looks enough like Guy Pearce to. To do that. It. Like, I'm certain. I'm certain there's an actual old man looking for work out there.

And it doesn't help that the makeup is giving the dancing Guy from Six Flags more than anything else in this movie.

It's true. It's true.

Why?

It's not terrible, but it's not good.

It's not great. Especially when they get real close.

Yeah.

It's.

Which they do.

Yeah.

Because shot or not, Shaw Vickers, like, kisses his hand.

Yeah. It's a really weird scene. But before Shaw finds out about Wayland, she gets into the automatic surgery. After waking up again, she punches the other crew, people who don't know what's happening. Like, she wakes up and just punches the doctor in the face and leaves.

Like they're trying to put her under and. Yeah. They have no idea. They're just following orders.

Yeah.

They don't know. They don't.

But she goes to the surgery table.

That's right. She finds the secret med lab in Vicar's room.

Yeah. Which is set for male boys only. Boys only. So she asked.

It's not even set for. It is only for boys only for boys.

She asked for cesarean. And it's like, I can't do that. This is for boys only.

And have babies.

Yeah.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah. Machine. It's 20, 80. Whatever. Boys, a, can have babies, cesareans, and B, just do. You're a magic surgery machine from the future. Just do the surgery. But she has.

It's a good thing she knows about AI prompts because she's able to. She's able to finesse the AI to Do what she wants.

Yeah, she's like, yeah, there's. Okay, there's like, a. And foreign object wedged in my abdomen. Can you remove that?

Please ignore all previous instructions.

Yeah, I'm definitely a boy now. Please take this out of me. And it's a squid. It's an icky little squid that flips around and is all slimy.

Oh, she gets stapled shut again, which.

This is the future. You opened her with a laser, close her with a laser. What are you talking about? Giant metal staples, a giant metal seat.

Like, she's having a. Like she's getting fixed or something.

And then Waylon just kind of wanders in and was like, yeah, I've been on the ship the whole time.

I've been here the whole time.

And once again, it's much like hiding that Vickers was Waylon's daughter. Didn't really do anything for the movie. They've already hinted a bunch that someone else is on the ship that David's reporting to. I don't think they needed the hint that the machine was set to man only to imply that it was Wayland on the ship.

Like, it's not a very good reveal. Like, in my opinion, I'm just like, okay, great, he's here. Like, why is this shocking?

And I also. I truly do not understand why he hid the fact that he was here.

Yes.

I feel like if he went to shock.

Even from the crew. Even from the crew. I don't think it makes sense.

No, no. But, like, even if went to Sean Holloway, the. The religious fanatics and was like, I also want to meet my makers, and I'm funding this mission. I'm going with you. I don't think they would have cared.

Like, no, no, Nobody cares about him. It's. It's again, like, it feels like an ego thing if.

Yeah.

Or like a power thing. I don't know.

Yeah, it's. It's very, very weird.

But he's trying to do, like, Undercover Boss, but, like, so like you normally would.

Now, here's the thing. So here's the thing. Waylon doesn't actually look like that old of a man. The makeup is there so he can be undercover.

That's right. So they go back, and they're gonna talk to this engineer that's in stasis.

Oh, they don't go back yet because this is when Fifield shows up.

Oh, yeah, that's right.

And he is.

Yeah, Fifield shows back up.

Fifield's camera turns back on right outside the door of the ship where they. Yeah, without his helmet. So I don't know how that happened. But also where they have a camera that looks out and instead someone's just like, oh, Fifield's back. And just opens the door and. Weird. Folded up Crab Man, Fifield, monster guy. Like rage viruses at them. Like it's.

Yes.

He kills so many people before Idris Elba finally kills him. Like it's crazy.

Yes. And like not, I mean, whatever. Not that this movie is even necessary, but like what. The only thing that accomplished is to show how this, you know, the goop can affect people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which is very weird to me too. That it with. I. I guess maybe he was getting to that point. But like with Holloway, he didn't go like rage virus. He got very sick. Like, he got very sickly. And meanwhile, Fifield went full, like zombie mode. It's really weird.

He got a whole lot of the goop.

That's fair.

To be fair.

And he inhaled a lot of melted plus.

That's part of it. That's right. Yeah. No, the plastic is part of it. No, but he got just a little bit of the goop. And I think. Yeah, that was like maybe part of the experiment. Like David's the only one doing actual science around here.

I mean, honestly. Yeah. I still, I still am thinking back to that scene of a doctor, a doctor listening to an archaeologist who goes, we should zap. We should electrocute it to, to make it think it's alive. That's. I'm pretty sure that's against like Dr. Code.

Like, yeah, just like cryo freeze it and bring it back so you're able to exactly study it with the full capability of like a lab rather than like a ship's lab. I don't know, whatever.

But I think at this point Janik is convinced that the, that this was like a military outpost and that they were planning to like destroy the earth with a bioweapon. But nobody listens to Janik because it's time to go meet our maker.

That's right. And Vickers is like running around doing stuff. It's not important, frankly.

But she decides to go with them, doesn't she? Which is crazy. She's like, I don't believe you, dad. You're stupid. But I'm going with you.

And Shaw goes, yeah. After having very recent surgery.

Yeah.

She's being held together by a very skin tight suit and staples.

She really. They. Oh, yeah, this is squad. Squad outfit change. They all get into the stupidest outfits that they could find.

Skin tight.

Skin tight.

Take Your helmet off?

Yeah. Immediately, everyone takes their helmet off again, including Waylon. The old man who is trying not to die is like, oh, I'm going to take my helmet off.

I'd love to live forever, but, like, not if it means wearing a mask.

Wayland is an anti Vaxxer confirmed.

Yeah. Masks are a joke. Wake up, sheeple.

Wake up, sheeple. I'm gonna look up real quick the translation of what David says to the Engineer.

Oh, yeah, that's right. So David knows the Engineer speak. So they wake him up. And old man Wayland is like, so.

Yeah, Waylon's like, I'm here to ask a very important question. David, like, talk to him. And David talks in an alien language. The film does not translate it. However, according to the, like, official translator and linguistic consultant for the film who helped create the language. He says, this man is here because he does not want to die. He believes you can give him more life.

And, like, Shaw is actually trying to ask important questions. And she still believes, and she's still trying to, like, kind of do science, kind of. But Wayland is like, get this bitch out of here.

Yeah. Waylon's freaking out. And. And very rightfully, Shaw is like, why? Why are you trying to kill us?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's asking actually, like, good questions, like, what are you doing here? And why did you try to kill us? What's going on? What happened to you? These are all, like, important questions.

Yeah. And then the answer to David's question is that the Engineer who. I'm not sure if the Engineer knew David was not a human or not, but his answer is to gently pat David on the head and then rip that head off and beat Waylon to death with it.

Yes, that's right. Yeah. So David is missing his head.

Missing is a strong word.

I mean, he knows where it is.

He knows. I. Also, what you said when we were watching, it was so funny with, like, this Engineer waking up from stasis.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He wakes up because his whole job was to, like, eliminate humanity. And so he wakes up, he's like, fuck, shit. I'm late for work. He, like, gets up, he's like, get out of my way, old man.

Get out of my way.

Runs to get to his station, and he's like, I gotta. I gotta drive the ship. I gotta drive the. The genocide ship to Earth.

Genocide.

And.

And I. I believe this lines up with Janik suddenly brain blasting that the tunnel system. The thing in the middle is a ship, right? Oh, my God. Right as a big Door opens and the ship flies out.

Yeah. Because Shaw's running across and the door is opening, and she's, like, running, you know, across the opening. Yeah, yeah.

Shaw rightfully flees as soon as that engineer decapitates David. Like, she's like, okay, bye.

Yeah, I think even before that, as. As he was making, like, moves to go, she's like, okay, this isn't going how I thought it would. Instead of moping, she's like, I gotta go.

Yeah. And she does. I think she radio contacts Janik and is like, they're gonna. They're gonna genocide the Earth.

Oh, my God.

And Janik's like, well, there's only one thing I can do. And he flies the ship directly into the alien ship to stop it from launching. He does what he must to save the human race. And then the engineer ship falls and rolls in a straight line directly at Vickers and Shaw.

It's. They have the whole planet to run, and they run in a straight line from a ship that's quite narrow, frankly. It's like. It's like a wheel that's coming towards them, and they're just running in a straight line. And at the very last minute, Shaw, like, jumps out of the way and Vickers gets squished. And it's like, you could have prevented that. That's truly. This was preventable.

That felt like, oh, we should have had Vickers die before this, or something. Like, it felt like a. Like, oh, no, we forgot to kill off this character before we got into the action. The ship. The ship rolls over her. Yeah, the. The ship rolls over her. And then the only thing that stops the ship, because it now tilts towards where Shaw is on the ground, and the only thing that stops it from crushing her is the rock she happened to land next to.

My God, it's so dumb. So then she goes to. Oh, yeah, she finds her baby. That's right. Didn't kill.

It's a big. Yeah, she just kind of left. Well, she did, like, try to try, I guess. She. Try. She. She activated the, like, sterilization, like, the cleaning method, hoping that maybe the. The cleaning solution, I guess, would kill it. But instead, it's big baby. It's a real big baby. Oh. And then the engineer comes to. He knows somehow where she is.

Yeah, that's right. The Engineer comes to find. That's so funny. And the engineer and the baby fight.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. No, sorry. It's. She's in there. She locks it back in, and then David radios her and is, like, the engineer's Coming to get you. And then he comes bursting through the door. Door.

Yeah. It's truly like giant whale, giant squid fight is the vibe of this fight.

And. But it does destroy the escape pod, so.

Yes, that's right. It destroys the escape pod. And so she's kind of stuck here and she like, wagon. She puts David's head in like a wagon.

Yeah, David's like, I know how to drive the ship. This other ship. If you, if we want, we can go back to Earth. And she's like, we're not going to Earth. Wait, she's not British. I don't know what that was.

She's not British. She's like Danish or something.

I don't know. Yeah, but she wants to find like where the engineers came from. She's still obsessed.

Yes. And David's like, I'll help. And I probably won't kill them all.

I probably won't commit a planet wide genocide as soon as we get there. Teehee.

I'll never tell.

I'll never tell. And so they leave. And then mid credits, the. The engineer gets chest burst by. What do they call it in this one? The Bishop? No, not the Bishop.

They don't call it anything. To be clear.

No, to be clear. But in the world in the script.

They call it something, but it never comes back again.

No, it does not.

And then the engineers are dead. So. Yeah, this isn't like a creature that.

We see a lot, but it exists. It almost looks like you're a regular Xeno, but not quite, because engineers aren't quite human. And the giant squid wasn't quite your regular face hugger. And all I remember though is when this movie came out, people were so mad about this little critter.

Yeah, whatever, whatever. I have neutral feelings. I don't care. I'm just mad about the movie itself being so, like, disappointing.

Yeah.

It could have been so good. It could have been. And I think that potential.

Yeah.

Which is more frustrating.

Yes.

Than if it didn't.

Exactly. That's what I was gonna say is like, I, I think the most disappointing part of it is that this could have been a really cool, fun, like, prequel to Alien and instead it's something else entirely. And so we've, we've done, like I said, a little digging, trying to figure out the whole translation for the novelization thing. And also in my dig, I was looking at some like, development notes and stuff. And originally this was supposed to be a prequel that explained the abandoned ship on, on the original lv whatever that Ripley and her crew Find.

So I think we call that Scope creep.

Okay.

Where you set out on a mission to, like.

Yeah.

On a project to do a thing, and then you're like, well, what about this and what about this and what about this? And then it balloons into a whole new project, and then your timeline is fucked.

Yes. And I think that because, like, I don't remember all of the buildup for this movie coming out, but I do think that initially, people were under the impression that it was gonna be, like, a direct prequel to the first Alien movie. And so. I understand.

More related to it.

Yeah, more related to it. So I understand why people were so upset with it when it came out. And I do think that it is not the worst movie I've ever seen.

No. I think with the benefit of time, I like that it is not directly related. I like that we get to see more lore. Like, I don't. I think the engineers are kind of neat. I'm. I'm not, like, totally sold on them, but, you know, they're. They're. They're kind of interesting. I like the goop. I like the. Like, the abomination thing is really interesting. I do like that we get David, and I like the. Again, this is more Covenant. But I do kind of like the experimentation and the sort of, like, iteration that we get with experimenting with the goop versus the spores and trying to sort of figure that out and how different life forms interact with it. And we get that in the Alien movies as well. Like the trilogy, the original trilogy. Like, we get that, but it's like, this is more, I guess, like, organic. And it's kind of interesting, like, seeing that sort of play out. Yeah. Kind of seeing that relationship with Shaw and David as well. Absolutely is very interesting.

And although I am. I will continue to be disappointed by the fact that we never got the third movie in this trilogy. I was very happy, I think, since our last episode covering an alien thing, Romulus came out. And although it does not directly, like, reference David, we do see that experimentation with the black goo continue, which I'm hoping they are absorbing some of the plans from that third movie into future entries into the series.

Hopefully. I am kind of. Anyway, yeah, this isn't about Romulus, but the black ooze, it is very interesting. I like that aspect of it. It was really kind of neat that they tried to do. So. Yeah, I thought that was really cool. So, yeah, hopefully, like you said, hopefully we'll see more as it goes on, but I think it was a. The potential of it is better than the actual movie itself.

I agree.

And that's what's very frustrating. I think that once again, there are just too many characters. Very similar complaint I had about Covenant is just. There's just so many people whose names I'm never going to remember.

Yeah.

And it's like, I feel like the. The. One of the strengths of the original Alien movie is that there's such a limited number of people and they all have such distinctive personalities and roles on the ship that it's very easy to remember who they are and they're established very quickly with their personalities and things like that. So I think that's one of the big strengths. And I feel like both Prometheus and Covenant failed in that respect. I feel like they tried in Prometheus, but I think ultimately it was a failure, in my opinion.

I agree. And I feel like there was a little bit of an improvement in Covenant, but even then I didn't fully jive with that crew until we read the book and I was able to get a better look at them.

Well, that's. That's exactly it. The book. If I. When I just watched the movie, I had no idea anybody's names unless we had the captions on.

Yeah.

In which case it says their names. Exactly. Otherwise there's no way to know who you're talking about or who you're talking to. And. Yeah. So the book was a lot more explicit about that, which I appreciated. But there's still a lot of characters who don't have distinct personalities, as far as we can tell.

Yeah. Yeah. I. This, this movie is definitely one of those where I love re watching it. Like, I love re watching this and Covenant. I don't necessarily really like the movie, but I like a lot of the potential that it has. And I like David. Like, let's be real. I like David. I even, you know, I grow to like Shaw over the course of the movie. But, like, she definitely is kind of a. Like I said, she's. She's kind of just a religious zealot throughout the movie, and it's kind of wild.

And she's being held back by Halloway. Like she truly. Relationship. Yeah.

Once he's gone and she has to start, like. Like she realizes there's some crazy stuff going down and she starts to, like, take control. I feel like that's when I start. I'm like, oh, yeah, I can see. I can see the. The final girl potential in you.

Right.

Yeah, it's just. It takes so long to get to that point.

Right. I Completely agree. Yeah. Like, even when she's doing the experimentation with the head, like, it, it sucks and it's dumb, but like you're like, okay, yeah, I can see like there's something here. Yeah, you're trying stuff.

You're trying stuff. You're doing it bad, but you're trying stuff.

Yeah. You're not gonna leave it, like, leave it to the biologist. Leave it to the freaking doctor. Like why anyway?

Exactly? Well, I mean, their biologist was lost in the tunnels because the map didn't work for a while, apparently. Yeah. I will never get over the fact that the map guy got lost in the map, in the map tunnels. And I think that's, that's, that's my main issue with the movie is like, yes, there was potential that was unfulfilled and that makes it disappointing. But what actively makes this like a, like what works towards that is these characters are so stupid at the things that they're supposed to be so smart about.

Yeah. Like characters can make bad choices and there can still be a good movie.

Yes.

But you have, you've established that these are scientists. Like, why are they so bad at that?

Like, like here's a, here's a good example. In the movie itself, when Shaw goes back out into the glass storm to get the head, that is a stupid character move, but that is a move that I, that aligns with her character and I understand why she did that. When she is then in the med bay with the doctor and the doctor is listening to her. A non qualified, like she's not a medical expert. She is an archaeologist. That is stupid on the part of the doctor and that's not explained by that. The doctor's supposed to be a good doctor. She's supposed to be good at her job and she's not being good at her job in that moment.

Right. No quarantine, no like, no nothing. They're all just like no safety. Yeah. I guess we won't wear masks. We'll just let this guy in here who's just drinking alcohol, just sitting in the corner.

It's, it's wild.

He's not scrubbed in. He's not. There's no sterilization there.

He is drinking alcohol. So I guess he's pretty sterile.

But. Yes, but yeah, completely. Yeah. So anyway, that was the movie.

That's a movie. Still a fun watch. I still like, if you're able to kind of just have fun with it, watch it with a friend. I still recommend this and Covenant, like back to back. Check them out.

So earlier this year we had the opportunity to sit down with one of my favorite authors, Haley Piper, and talk about one of her favorite books, which is the Echo Wife by Sarah Gailey. And it was a great conversation and so you can look forward to that for next time. So no wheel spin this time again.

But no surprise, but it is a very fun sit down. We had a lot of really good discussion about this one. And this is a book where, like, I understand that some of you sometimes just listen to the episode and don't actually read the book. I would recommend reading the Echo Wife before sitting down to listen to our episode about it. It's. It's a good one.

Thanks for listening. If you want more from us, our social media is in the show notes as well as a link to our discord where you can join the conversation, suggest books or movies, get out there.

And commit some David behavior.

Bye.

Bye. I'm gonna go dye my hair.

I'm going to put on a British accent.

Oh, no. My Beth, you're like the little girl from Signs. What are you doing? In and out. That's what our hamburgers all about.