Welcome to David Behavior, a horror book review podcast. I'm Beth.

And I'm Marie.

And today's David Behavior is ignoring a problem for 200 years instead of dealing with it.

An absolute mood.

So before we get started, we want to remind you to support your local bookstore. You can do that by purchasing a physical copy of Thorn Hedge by T. Kingfisher or by using Libro FM to pick up an audiobook. It's also available on Libby or at your local library. So Thornhead is a short book. It's short.

I wouldn't. I would qualify it as a novella. More than a book, I mean, but we typically read novels on. On for the show, and this is definitely like a novella versus that.

So it's a modern retelling of Sleeping Beauty from the fairy's perspective. And it's about Toadling, the fairy sent to the mortal world to deal with a problem she didn't create. There's a maiden in a tower, a knight and a hedge. For me, this book is for someone who likes dark fairy tales and very light horror I will put out there. I don't think it's actually horror. I know that this is a horror book review podcast, but I blame Goodreads for putting the horror tag in the, like, 2,000 people that tagged it as horror.

Yeah, when this came up on the wheel, I did. I did look at it after and was like, beth, it doesn't say it's horror. And then you were like, oh, don't worry. And you sent me a screenshot of the Goodreads horror tag being there. And I was like, all right, if you say so. However, this is a good book. It's a cute book. It is not horror. It has some horror elements. It is definitely genre adjacent, as we'd say, like, for movies more than books. People usually talk that way, but if you don't generally like horror, but you want to start dipping your toes maybe in some horror elements, I think this is the book for you.

So, yeah, in terms of similar media, I don't have a lot. I think, in terms of dark fairy tales, there's a few out there. The one that is front of my mind was a book that was recommended to me by a coworker and I just, like, happened to have it. I haven't read it yet as a disclaimer, but it's called Fairy Tale by Alice Thomas Ellis. And it is. It has changelings and fairy tales and fairies and the Welsh.

They're here too. That's pretty. That's pretty genre. Jason, if you ask me, I'm joking. I love the Welsh.

But yeah, in terms of, of that, I mean there's another one I haven't read but I can recommend because I actually I like Brom is the Child Thief and you have read it, Marie?

I have read it.

Recommend it.

I would recommend it. Obviously in this book we are dealing with a sympathetic fairy. However, there are encounters with other fairies that are definitely not sympathetic. And I do think that Brahms story leans into that darker type of Fae creature. And yeah, I think it would actually be a good side by side read with this book.

Amazing. My other one, I said I didn't have many and then I just remembered some. But my other one would be T. Kingfisher's other books aren't necessarily horror either. She writes some romance and I would recommend, if you're in the mood for romance, Sword Heart. It's very good. It's a mature female protagonist and she's very good at developing relationships. And I think that that's reflected in the novella and it's reflected in Swordheart.

Absolutely. I agree. The relationship within this is like, obviously it's a novella, it's very light, we don't really get very far. But I do really like the characters like immediately.

Yeah, they have a good dynamic.

I've only read one other book by T. King Fisher, but even just from these two I can tell that like her character work is excellent. I really enjoy it.

You should read Swordheart. Think you would like it.

I might just do that eventually. Is it, is it wholesome? I need some light reads in my life at this point in history. It is okay. It really is. As for me, my similar media, I'm kind of coming at this from a few different directions. I couldn't think of anything that is exactly the same vibe that I get from this novella. However, I think kind of Close would be the Last Unicorn, directed by Arthur Rankin Jr. And Jules Bass. I have not read the book. I own the book the Last Unicorn. I keep meaning to read it. I've heard that it's pretty similar to the cartoon. So maybe read the book if you'd prefer to do that. I personally love the cartoon and I love Mia Farrow as the unicorn. And I feel like the unicorn has a lot in common with our, our little toadling in this book. And then otherwise, if you're wanting to lean more into the whole changeling horror adjacent, I would recommend the New Daughter, directed by Luis Bardejo. I watched it because someone said that it was the scariest movie they've ever seen. I didn't think it was that scary. However, if you are a parent, it might be a little scarier for you because I think that's where that person was coming from, was like, as a parent, it was truly horrifying to them. But it deals with children, changelings, and Kevin Costner moving to a mysterious house out in the middle of nowhere with his two children.

Kevin Costner.

I know, right? This is so old. It's so funny too, because he's like, it's one of those books where it's like 1 of 3 likes. Movies, movies, books, media, where it's like. And we moved into this eight bedroom sprawling estate on 20 acres. And by the way, I'm an author, or by the way, I'm an architect or like just like a job where it's like, yeah, you can be very successful at it, but like, not every single author is buying a sprawling country estate.

It's like, how many architects are there, right?

And how many of them are so.

Successful that they don't have to work?

I know. And they never work in the movies. It's so funny. All right. And then finally, my last recommendation. If you want something a little more horror, a little. A lot more horror, a lot more genre, I'd recommend the Omen. Directed by Richard Donner. It's a classic for a reason and it deals with a changeling of sorts.

I guess.

I mean, take out the fae and replace it with the devil and you've got the Omen.

Yeah, same principle, I guess. And.

But unfortunately, the parents and the Omen do not have a Toadling to help them.

What was your experience with this book other than berating me about not choosing a horror book?

I only berated you a tiny little bit. Okay, just a little. I only bullied you canceling me. I only bullied you like twice, maybe three times about this. That said, despite it not being horror, I really, really enjoyed this book. I thought it was very sweet. It was very short and easy to get into. Like I said, the characters I immediately felt a connection with Toadling. This isn't a spoiler, so I'm not going to save it for the spoiler section. Very near the beginning there's a line that says, mostly she was fretful and often tired. And I was just like, mood, that's me. So I immediately related to Toadling. I thought she was very sweet. I really like the knight. He's very sweet. And I thought overall that the story was really interesting and it was one of those novellas that Usually when I read a short story, I often find myself wishing that it was longer. And this isn't a negative against this book. I didn't wish it was longer at the end. I thought it was like the perfect length and it like wrapped itself up so neatly and tidily. I just had a really good time with it.

Yeah, I didn't overstay its welcome. And actually the epilogue, honestly, I could have given or taken the epilogue like at the very end. Yeah, I'm glad, I'm glad it was there, but I was just like, I'm happy for that part to remain a mystery for me. Almost a year ago I had read it. I don't think it made a huge impact on me. The audiobook is only four hours long and that's how I consumed it the first time. I think I actually listened to it on like 1.3 or 1.25 or something. So. Oh my gosh, last time. Yeah, so I didn't make like a huge impact on me, but I did enjoy it. I enjoyed it and in reading it this time it made a bit more of an impact. But honestly, it was just kind of like you said, it's. It's short, it's sweet. It's not, you know, pushing any great message or anything like that. But as with a lot of T kingfisher's protagonists, I find totaling very relatable. And the banter is. Is cute. Again, not horror.

No, there are some elements there. There's some. I do enjoy the elements that taking Fisher does bring into it. And there are a couple scenes where I was like, oh, this is. This is spooky. I like this. This is really good. But it definitely is not a horror novel.

No. That being said, I think we can get into the spoiler section.

Absolutely. Tell us all about it.

We learn about Toadling and we learn about how she is guarding this tower surrounded by a wall of thorns. And we're already kind of primed to think about Sleeping Beauty and we're like, oh, so she's guarding this maiden who. She doesn't want people to disturb the maiden. And you know the whole Sleeping Beauty story, we learn about Toadling herself. The description is. I don't know, I like it. I think it's cute.

She's very adorable.

The fairy was a greenish tan color of mushroom stems and her skin bruised blue black like mushroom flesh. She had a broad frog like face and water weed hair. She was neither beautiful nor made of malice, as many of the fair folk are said to be. Mostly she was Fretful and often tired.

I love it a lot. And I love that we also get the passage of time as this chapter goes on and as she describes the different people that she sees and hopes. Don't come nose around too much.

Yes.

And I love that she's friends with birds. It's really sweet. I love the way that the different types of birds are characterized. Like, there's just a lot of, like, really good fairy tale stuff in here.

And. Yeah. Talking about. Yeah, the stories being told about a princess in a tower and a hedge of thorns to keep the princes out. She's all alone and she says, I can't fight stories. And that will come back later.

Indeed.

We're in the spoiler section.

We are in the spoiler section. The story survives. What a twist.

But that line specifically comes up later. Yeah, yeah, she can't fight stories and she's trying to basically outlast the stories. And I don't think she even knows what her end game is, to be honest. Like, she's just here for like 200 years and she's like, well, I guess I'm just here forever.

Yeah.

And eventually a night approaches.

Before we hop into that, sorry, I wanted to touch on one thing as. As more people start traveling through the area, I really enjoyed the little touches of like, actual Fae lore that t. Kingfisher involved in this. And in one of the things she says as she's like seeing all these people riding back and forth on horseback and everything and building up a city, she says, let them not come. She prayed. She had been told that the Fair Folk were without souls. And probably that applied to her as well. A befuddled creature betwixt and between. Still, just. Just in case she prayed, let them not come here. Let them not clear the thorns. I do not know how many of them I can hold off. Please keep them away. Amen. I. I really like that because a. It does involve, like, the actual Fae lore about, you know, the. The Fae can't, you know, say prayers because they don't have souls or whatever. But I. I just love her awkwardness. Even in praying is. Is so evident. She's such an awkward little creature. And I love her.

Well, in general. Things just kind of happen to her as well. She's a pretty passive protagonist in general.

Which I usually don't enjoy. Like, I don't really like that in books overall. But I feel like with her, in her case, like, with. With the crap that she's gone through, it works for like, the type of story that's happening.

She's just got anxiety. And I relate to that.

Yeah.

Later on, like, when she thinks that she's, like, fucked everything up. Well, I guess I have to fix it now. And it's like, girl, this wasn't your problem and you don't have to fix it.

No. It's so sad. Yeah.

That was me the whole time, like, talking to her. I'm just like, this isn't your deal. It's the hair's problem.

Frankly, dude, that hair made me so mad when it shows back up and it's like, finally. I'm like, you did not tell her. Like, you. What do you mean finally?

Why didn't you say anything when she said she thought she it up? Like, what are you talking about? So fewer people come. And then eventually, hundreds of years later before that, though, we learned that she can turn into a toad, which I think is also so cute. I love that. And she gets to, like, nestle into the mud and just, like, be a little toad.

Yeah.

And bugs.

It's very sweet. Everything. This is a very sweet story. You're gonna hear me say that a lot because, like, honestly, that. That is kind of the extent of it. It's just a sweet story.

Well, and I guess it does make sense because she is. She is the princess, right? Like, she. She got stolen and a changeling got put in her place. Like, she is acting very like princess, like, being very passive and blah, blah, blah. Which. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was many years later, as the book says, a night approach. This is also the point where I'm just like, what was your whole plan? Why are you even there? Like, you're not gonna actually defend anything. Yeah, she's just creeping around, like, watching this guy.

She's creeping around. She's just watching him. Yeah, well, and I love that too. Another nod towards, like, classic fairy stuff, but also, like, really? You thought that, like, matting his hair would make him go away? I. I love that she spends a lot of time, like, getting this matte perfect in his hair, tying these little elf knots. And then he's like, are you done now? After she. After she pauses. He was awake the whole time just waiting for her to be done.

She's also not sneaking very well because he also knew that she was there the whole time.

Yeah. Oh, and she does mention, too, that, like, she's. She's not gift shifted the way other fairies are. Like, we're already. We don't know yet that she's the lost princess that was exchanged. I mean, we kind of have A little bit of a hint here and there, but she, like, explains that she doesn't have the skills that some of the greater Fae have to, like, turn invisible and stuff. And so she's just very. Turn into a toad badly sneaking around in her human form and tying knots.

In his hair, which is also very funny. Like, why are you in your human form, trying to sneak around?

I know.

Yeah. All she's really doing is just, like, worrying about it and hoping that he leaves. And then he starts to talk to her. And she kind of likes it because she hasn't talked to anyone in, like, hundreds of years.

Yeah. I immediately liked Halim. I thought he was very.

Oh, yes.

Like, he's a very cool. I like that he is a Muslim knight instead of like your typical, like, knight in shining armor, Christian knight. That there would be. But I also love that when he does talk to her, he made a little half bow, more of a nod, still seated. You have been following me? He said, I thought you were something more malign. I did not mean to frighten you. His face was serious and polite. The map dangling by his left ear looked ridiculous. And I. The entire time. I really enjoy how polite and, like, kind Halim is immediately towards her and, like, he can tell that she is just an awkward little critter that does not know how to be around people.

Yes. And he asks if she's troubled by the fire, and she thinks, troubled by the fire? What manner of creature does he think I am? I assume that's more fairy lore.

Well, it's possible. But he also. He asked her initially if she's a Djinn, because. Oh, yeah, he comes from, like, a different. A different type of mythical creature lore and everything with his culture. And then after, she's like, no, she doesn't know what that is. He's like, oh, are you an elf, then? And she's like, yeah, yeah, pretty much.

Same thing. It kind of reminds me of when he. Later on, he's like, so you're cursed for sure.

Oh, my God.

No, she's.

It's so, like, in one second, this is why I was like, oh, this is just very sweet. It's like. He's like, all right, I believe you like the little, like, nose tap, like a wink, little thing where he's like, I'll be back, though, with stuff to break your curse because you're clearly cursed.

He's just like, he's what, the second son or something? Third son. And he's like, I gotta do something heroic. I just have to. And breaking this curse. That's what it's gonna be? I'm gonna save a princess.

Hell, yeah.

I believe in you. You can do it.

And I also thought it was very nice when he asks her name. And he's very polite about it, too, because he asks, probably being a little familiar with some fairy folklore. He's like, is it okay if I ask your name? And she explained in her narration, she explains that, like, if she was a true Fae, it would probably be a big faux pas for him to do that. But since she's not. She says her name is Toadling. And he's like, oh, that doesn't seem very nice. And she's like, what? What do you mean?

It is what I am called.

It's just her name.

Just her name.

And we. We find out that she was raised by the green teeth. I think first she asked him like, oh, what. What are you doing here? There's nothing here. And he's like, well, I read a book about a tower, and I'm pretty sure it's right there. And he points right at the tower through the. Like, where it would be through the. Through the brambles and everything. And she's like, no.

What? I don't know what you're talking about. There's no tower.

And then she's like, why would they write it in a book? Like, she immediately gives up the. Gives it away. She's not someone who's accustomed to lying. No.

So then he leaves, and she's like, good, I'm glad you're gone.

Except she's not.

Except she's not. So then a few days go by. She thinks it's a week. And she says I should check just to make sure, in case. In case something happened. And she checks the keep. And we see Fayette in her bedroom. And I liked the description of the magic.

Oh, I think I probably highlighted the same thing.

And we don't. We don't know this at this point, but it's. We learn this sort of later that the magic is kind of separated from Toadling. Like, she's less powerful because she's maintaining the spell, I guess. So the magic was concentrated near the top of the remains of the tower, but she could feel it from here. It was like stepping into a warm rain. Individual droplets of magic beaded invisibly against her skin. And she brushed them away with her hands. And I just thought that was really nice. I liked it. And we learn later, when she gets the magic back, it, like, almost like, flows into her like water, because it is water.

Yeah, and I loved that, too. I actually highlighted that same quote because I love it when magic is described in a very tactile way in books, especially, like fantasy novels and everything. I love it when people can taste magic in the air or when they can feel it on their skin like this. And at this point, I don't know, we don't necessarily know that it's taking away from her power, but she does mention that it feels kind of weird because it's been so separate from her for so long that it doesn't really feel the same anymore. And I like that too. I think it's really interesting.

I also like when elements are characterized. Like, later on, she talks about the earth being, like, begrudging because she can't command the earth. She can only ask, but she can command water. And water is described as, like, petulant. And I liked. I liked that as well. Like, I think that's.

I.

That's a neat.

I like that one too, as well. At the moment when. Because she asks it to help, basically Halim with something and it helps, and then it wants to keep helping and she's like, no, no, no, no, no, that's enough.

Yeah, we learn. Yes, we learn Toadling's backstory at this point. So we see faet in the tower, and then we learn about Toadling, who is the princess. And she talks about how in those days, there's iron on bassinets and things like that to prevent changelings in general. And her mother had been bleeding and dying, so she had been abandoned. She had been left alone for two minutes, and she was stolen and replaced with a changeling. And she finds her place with the green teeth, who are a bunch of toads and fish people. And she learns magic with them. And. And we're told that they mostly kill humans that come. Come to them all. All boys get murdered on site. It's on site for boys. Fortunately, Toadling gets taken in and she basically gets transformed into a fey creature. She learns magic and she learns to turn into a toad, and she gets to sort of learn water magic.

Yeah. And I. I love, as she is describing her childhood basically with these. With these green teeth. I love that she says, surrounded by child eating swamp spirits. Totaling Felt intensely loved. Yeah, I do love these creatures. And they're so spooky, scary, but also very sweet to her because she's theirs and she. Yeah, because she is theirs and they are hers and I just really love that.

Yeah. Yeah. And as she is being taken so the later on the way that she gets to the mortal plane is that the goddess Hair takes her there because she's needed. She doesn't want to go and the hare doesn't want to take her. She says. But we are not always given the choices that we want. And it's like very rolling stones of the hair.

It is very rolling stones of the hair. And I do love that when she's getting taken away. The eldest. I just have this quote here too. It says the ancient Green Teeth was the oldest of her kind. But her teeth were sharp as razors. She bit Toadling's left palm across the heel of her hand and left a semicircle of tooth marks. Remember us, she said, picking up a handful of river mud and laying it over the wound. Remember us and if you can find your way back to us in time. And I thought that was also very sweet and a little like. It's. It's that. That monstrous thing where it's like. And then she bit her hand and made her bleed. But it's. It's a very sweet gesture at the same time. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like giving her like a bracelet or something.

Exactly.

A wound.

It's a wound. A scar.

So she rides off on the hair to.

She goes still within the fae. She goes to a castle to be trained on the like proper ritual of what she is doing. And to learn more magic. She's not very good at other magic besides her water. Her swampy magic.

That's right. So she goes to school. Back to school.

Back to school.

She's got her backpack on, her shoes tie tight.

And I love this quote too. When she gets there. So with the. With the green teeth, they all sleep in like a little. A little green teeth pile in the water. And one of them usually holds her up so she can stick her nose out of the water and breathe. Because she can hold her breath for a really long time. But she can't breathe underwater.

Yeah.

But when she gets there, like she meets her new teacher. And then he just like. Kind of like, here's your room. And then says. And then he went out and shut the door behind him. And the first lesson that Toadling learned in that strange place was loneliness. I was like, oh, Toadling.

No, no.

That's not a good lesson.

So she learns to read. She learns what she needs to know about the mission. It also says it was in Toadling's nature to try to please. Which Also relatable.

Yeah. As a recovered people pleaser. Yeah. This is where she learns that she was meant to be human. And it kind of breaks her heart a little bit to realize that she is not like the rest of her family. And I just thought that was really sad.

Yeah. And she sort of learns this is human school that she's going to. She learns how to be human, essentially, and what the norms are and things like that. But ultimately it's to learn her mission, which is to give the changeling a gift. Just like in the book where, you know, the fairies go and give Aurora a gift, and she learns it and she practices. She wants to get it right. But as soon as she goes to her parents castle to bestow the gift, she's treated with reverence as a fairy. We flash back to Halim at this point in the chapter, before we get.

To Halim, we also meet the one human that lives in Faerie, which is a nun.

Oh, yeah.

And I don't want to linger on it for too long, but, like, I just love that she meets this nun and the nun's like, well, I might as well try to spread God's love in this godforsaken place. And she just, like, stays there as a missionary, but she's like, good friends with. With Toadling's teacher, Master Gourami, or whatever his name is. I just. I thought she was fun.

Yeah, they just like, humor her. They're like, she's cute. She's cute.

She can stay here.

So before we learn about her. Well, we learn about her mission, which is to go and bestow a gift before we learn how that goes. Spoilers. It doesn't go well. Halim comes back and he's yelling into the forest. This time he doesn't know where she is, which I also thought was kind of cute. He's just yelling into the forest.

He's like, I'm back. And he's like, damn it, I don't even know if she's here. And she's like, I'm right here. And I love to. I'm sorry, I did highlight this part because I thought it was so funny where she's like. He's like, if you're here, like, you know, I brought all this stuff or whatever. And she's like, I'm not going to talk to him. And then she immediately stands up and says, go away. Said Toadling, standing up and breaking her promise to herself immediately, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, of course. So this is where he tries to break her. Her quote unquote curse. And obviously it doesn't happen because she's not cursed. And he says, if I can make it right, I Will. And I also thought, you know, that's pretty cute. They're like, matching.

It is, Yeah. I love that he brings a knife that was blessed by. By Rabbi A. Rab. No, no, no. The rabbi. He couldn't get the rabbi's blessing because the rabbi had never met a fairy and wanted to come with him. Wanted to come, but Halim wasn't sure if she'd be comfortable with that. So he was like, maybe I'll bring her to meet you later if. If things work out.

Yeah, but. And a priest, I think.

Yeah, yeah.

And then the rabbi wouldn't bless it.

No. He's like, I know. I need to come and meet this fairy.

So funny. Yeah. So they attempt it, and it does not work. And she. She does reveal that there is a princess in the tower by saying, but you are like any other night. She said bitterly, you want to rescue the beautiful maiden in the tower. And he says, well, if she's there, I suppose it's only play to rescue her. I love it.

And I don't remember. I don't remember if it's at this point or at a different one, but she's like, why do you want to save me? Like, I'm not. I'm not a beautiful princess or whatever. And he's like, no, but you seem nice. Like, he's. He doesn't care a lot about her appearance. He thinks that she seems sweet and kind, and he wants to help her because he can. Like.

Yeah, well, also for the content. Well, yeah, for the content.

He is here for the content. I like too, that we find out that, like, he has fought people before, but, like, only in self defense. He's not a very. Like, he doesn't crave violence. He. He doesn't like bloodshed. He only does it if he has to.

Yes, absolutely. And this is where we get the return of. She did not know how to fight a story because that's why he's here. He's an idol, Idle knight with nothing to do. So he's just chasing down a story.

Yeah. There's no holy wars going on right now, so there's no need to go fight anyone.

Yeah. So she is like, okay, well, I guess. I guess we're going and I should probably kill him. And then, of course she doesn't.

Of course not.

Then we learn about how badly the gift goes and the christening goes. So the gift that she's supposed to bestow is she will do no harm to those around her. It feels like a genie wish, monkey paw situation where you have to say them in the right order, otherwise it doesn't work.

Yes. Which is really interesting caveats. I love. I love this little magic system that is kind of like brushed upon but never fully developed because this is a novella, this isn't a long story where they can really get into it. But I love the magic system that T. Kingfisher has like hinted at here where it's like. Because she was like raised in the water and everything, she can control the water and she understands that type of magic. But she has such a difficult time even learning other magics, let alone as we find out, controlling the results of this. Because it just kind of happens as soon as she says enough of the words. Just wrong.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So in saying it wrong. So the reason that she says it wrong is that she sees her mother who wasn't supposed to be there. In all of the practices that they did, the mother was never there because she was supposed to be recovering from being from blood loss from the birth. Because in fairy it had been several years, but in the human world it had only been like two days or something like that. It had only been a few days.

Yeah, it was like I think a week total is what. What it was since the birth. Yeah.

So they did not expect the mother to be there. And the mother tried to prevent the gift because she saw it as a curse. Obsessed with curses. So she says leave her alone. And instead of she will do no harm to those around her, she says I'm here to prevent her from doing harm. And the spell goes off.

Yep. It's like enough of the words were said, just not in the right order.

No. And it's never really said explicitly if that spell binds Toadling to the castle or to Fayed at all. It seems very voluntary that Tobling is even there because she just says I'm here to prevent her from doing harm. And well that guess that ties her to.

Yeah, she does spend the next few years trying to prevent her from doing harm.

She fails.

She fails a lot.

So I think she succeeds in some like she.

She helps a bit. Yeah.

But I guess that's why I mean like is. Is the spell binding like the fact that she fails to prevent her from doing harm says to me that there's nothing magical keeping toeing there.

Well no, but I A people pleaser. B. I feel like that's part of the like what the story is is talking about is. Oh for sure the, the curses in this are self inflicted like they are. You know, there would probably be some and she does feel the spell go off. So there might be some level of it keeping her there. But I think the like, the moral is that like sometimes the curse is just like a self fulfilling prophecy that we make ourselves do because we feel like we're expected to.

Yeah, for sure. I guess I'm trying to. I'm just working out if there is magical reason or not. And I think I'm concluding that there's not. And it's what you were saying.

Yeah, yeah. I think the. Like I said, it describes it and it seems like a spell goes off, but it also just seems like, like you said, she's just like, I guess this is my life now. She just decides to stay.

Yeah, yeah. And it goes very badly for her. I think I might. I mean this is where we get some of the horror elements where Fayette kills a dog.

The dog lives.

She.

The dog lives. Fortunately, when that. When the queen. Because the queen calls Fayette and is like, I just found out that she tortured a dog. Yeah. And Fayette immediately asks about the dog, which.

Right.

Fayette. Bless you.

Yeah. She harms the dog. She does kill the nurse.

Yes.

And puppets her body around, which is very nasty.

Very horror. And the way that it happens is so good because it's. Fayette has been like harming small animals and stuff. But then when she puppets the body around, she says, I tried like, she's like, oh, I tried to drag her up the stairs because I wanted to watch her fall down the stairs again because Fayette is a little psycho. And she's like, I tried to do it the other way, but that didn't work either. And that's when Toadling realizes that Fayette has started to be able to use magic as well because she puppets this corpse around. It. It is very horror. It's. This scene does not make the whole novella horror, but it is a very horror scene.

Yes. Yeah, for sure. So sort of, I guess glossing over some of those scenes, the horror that Fayette inflicts on the castle, the king and queen are basically just like, I don't know, if only she could sleep. Because if. When she's sleeping, she's a perfect angel.

It made me so mad because when I don't have the quote, but when they bring that up, the king, like straight up, the king is like, I can't kill my daughter. And you think that that's gonna be the full stop, but no, it's. We're gonna have to get someone else to do it. Like, nobody's like, what, sir? What do you mean?

Yeah, nobody wants to kill a little girl. What. You know, what is the world coming to?

What's the world coming to? I do love, though, that despite everyone's reluctance to actually do anything about the problem and to make kind of make totaling, deal with it, they all, like, nobody is like, you did this or anything. Like, they all trust her and, like, know that she is not the type of person that would ever, like, cause a child to be evil or anything like that.

So that's the thing, is that she sort of reveals her personality. They see her as a fairy and as the archetype of a fairy, which is, you know, fickle and mercurial, and her, you know, mood could turn on a dime. And eventually, the longer she hangs out there, they're like, oh, no, she's not going to do anything. She's not going to hurt us.

Because they start calling her our fairy, which I thought was very sweet.

Yeah. So the. The, like, evidence of that or the evidence. But the example in the text is that the. She would bring fish to the cook, and eventually, instead of asking for it. So she would bring the fish, the cook would say thank you, and then, you know, the cook would ask her was the next step of that. And then eventually the cook just told her to get fish. And it's like the. The very. The lack of respect.

Yeah.

You know, going from fear to respect to, like, she's just a servant.

Yeah. Well. And I don't know. I. I didn't really interpret it, like, quite that way. I felt like.

Or they're just comfortable with her, I guess. She's not necessarily a servant. They're just more comfortable with her.

Yeah. Just another member.

Because they know she's not a threat.

Yeah, exactly. And for the queen, the queen was the most standoffish, which, understandable, because she did. Oh, that was another thing is she used up a lot of her magic to help heal the queen, and then she used that as an excuse going forward as to why she had to stay or whatever was because her magic was like, her magic wasn't gone. But she says that. But so the queen was kind standoffish with her. And it wasn't until she summoned her and was like, I found out that Fayette tortured a dog or whatever. And because totaling immediately asked about the dog, the queen, that's kind of like when she realized, like, okay, you're not. I can't blame everything on you. Like, you care about other creatures. Damn it. Right.

Yeah. Finally. Right. Like, yeah. So the king and queen are like, we can't kill our daughter. But. And Toadling is like, well, I can make her sleep. So she gets a lot of water and everybody brings in all the water they can. She digs her little feet in and redirects the water to the tower and puts Fayette to sleep.

Yeah.

That's how we learn that Toadling is not protecting Fayette from the outside world, but she's protecting the outside world from Fayette because she's a little monster.

She's an absolute little monster.

And not in a Lady Gaga way.

No, absolutely not. She's a bad little monster. Well, and it's, it's really. And see, this is an interesting for me thing for me too, because I. I don't know if I fully agree with this. I almost recommended the movie the Bad Seed to go along with this because it explores some of the same themes. I didn't quite get there, but despite being raised by literal child eating monsters, Toadling is an inherently good person. She's just. She's just a good person. And despite being raised with love and with people trying to teach her right from wrong and everything, Fayette is just a little horror who wants to murder. And so there's this question of nature versus nurture when it comes down to that, and that is something that is explored in the Bad Seed is like the question of, is the girl a little murderer? Because her grandmother was a murderer. And so there's something just inherently wrong with her, basically. And I don't know how I feel about that as a theme overall, just because I didn't feel like it fully went there, because I do feel like the way that Toadling talks about the green teeth, it's very clear that she was raised with love, just with a different type of love. And so I don't think that was fully the message, which is why I didn't recommend the book. But I do feel like it's so interesting to see these parents who think they are doing everything for their child. And then it really comes down to their reactions to her becoming this monstrous creature where the king disengages and is like, well, I can't kill her, but I mean, if someone else does. And then the queen is just like, you can't kill my baby. But she offers no solutions for the problem.

Right.

So I just found that, like, really interesting dynamic to explore and a different twist on the usual nature versus nurture argument.

Well, and I wonder how. I wonder how Toadling would have grown up.

Yeah.

In that environment. Because I think part of it is that she is raised with love and that Fayette is not really raised with love.

No.

Like, I don't think her. I mean, her parents say they love her, but they're not really doing anything to really show that they're not engaging. They don't know that she's tortured this dog. Like. Well, I guess, like, being a king and queen is, like, a big job, but at the same time, it's like they're not really engaged with what her. What she's doing.

No, exactly. And. And it's. It's shown that Fayette is raised mostly by first the wet nurse and then later on, like, her nannies and stuff. And the dog was the first time that the queen had ever heard about anything happening. Because totaling is like, dang it. Like, I usually am able to stop her. I'm sorry. And it's like, that's not. That shouldn't be. That's not your job. Like, yeah, it's technically your cursed quote, unquote. Maybe with it now because of your blessing. But the parents should have been more engaged and known what their kid was up to.

So I think it's. I think it's more complex than nature versus nurture in that.

Oh, yeah.

In that sort of theme. I think that you're right to sort of go there. And I think that, you know, the different species having different morals and different levels of, you know, what right and wrong are definitely plays into it, but I think it's. Yeah, I think there's something there, but I don't think it's fully, necessarily.

I want to be clear. I don't think it's about nature versus nurture. I think it's a commentary on the argument of nature versus nurture.

Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's exactly. We're saying the same thing.

Okay. I woke. It sounded like you were contrasting what I was saying the way you phrased it. So I was like, oh, wait, no.

No, not at all. I'm. I guess I'm like. Because you're saying human, and I think there is a commentary on that aspect of it.

Yeah.

Because of totaling. Being raised with love, with monsters and sort of not really being raised with love, but with humans.

Yeah.

Anyway. Yeah. So she's asleep now, and Toadling's been there for 200 years, and she decides, fuck it, we're doing it live.

Fuck it.

We ball brings. Brings Halim up.

Yeah. And I. I have a quote here, too, about that. And I. I really like this. This is Haleem after. She's kind of explained everything that's going on and, like, why she's guarding this tower and everything. And. And he says, because she says, like, oh, it doesn't matter anyway, or something like that. And he says, didn't matter. But you couldn't leave here, could you? No, I'd made a mess of the gift. I didn't give it to her properly, so it was only right I had to stay. And then he says, you think you had to pay for 200 years for a momentary slip of the tongue, Toadling goggled at him. She could feel the words slipping down inside her, into the place under her breastbone. The other words rearranged, rearrange themselves to make space. And I love that because I feel like that is the first time anyone has ever offered her that type of support where it was like, you just, yeah, you messed up. But, like, you don't have to torture yourself for 200 years because of it.

Like, yeah, yeah, you shouldn't have been in this situation to begin with.

A hundred percent. And then I also like that. Sorry, go ahead.

I was gonna talk about damnation. Sorry.

Damnation. Tell me about damnation, please.

Just. When. When Haleem curses, he says sorry. And the curse is part of the swear.

Yes, that is very cute. He keeps apologizing. He keeps apologizing for it.

And I love it. Yeah, it just reminded me of other T kingfisher protagonists. Like, I. I didn't know that it was very similar to other protagonists. That sort of quirky trait.

Hell, yeah. I think it's before they go into the tower still. But at one point, after she's told him and she's crying about, like, everything that's going on, he just holds her and lets her cry. And I really love this. It's. Toadling shuddered and shivered against him. She wanted to turn into her quietest, coldest toad shape and sink into the mud and not think for a long time. But she stayed human instead. And Halim held her the way that no one had held her since she had left the green teeth behind. And I like, once again, you know, looking at the theming of this, there's definitely an exploration of the reason. Part of the reason why she has stayed here and just like, tormented herself with being trapped at this place for 200, over 200 years is because making decisions is difficult and she's an anxious person who has a hard time making decisions. And it's easier to just brain off toad mode and not have to think about what's happening.

I would love to have a toad Mode.

Oh, same. Sounds great.

Yeah. But, yeah, the journey to the tower, he gives her a lot of grace and basically lets her not feel guilty, like you said. Lets her acknowledge that, you know, just because she failed once doesn't mean she's a failure.

Yeah. And it's something that she desperately needed to hear, and I.

The hair didn't give it to her.

The hair didn't.

The hair should have.

The hair should have the hair. Yeah. Because initially, after she fumbles, quote, unquote, the curse or the blessing, the hair is like, well, I guess you have to stay here now. Bye. And just leaves and just like, no advice, no help whatsoever. And there's a explanation for it later, but I think that their explanation is bullshit.

It's garbage. Yeah. So they travel to the tower, and Toadling is in toad mode and has to hack through. Hack through these thorns to get through the thorn hedge because he. He brings the horse and the mule. Because we see the horse and the mule later, right?

Yeah, yeah. He's, like, hacking a big enough. A big enough, like, tunnel through these freaking brambles, these giant thorns to bring his horse and his mule. Which is fine because the horse and mule are very cute, and I like them.

Horse watch, horse to repair. Yeah. I like that he brings both. So, yeah, they hack through the hedge and they finally see the tower, and she has to find a way for Halim to get up because nobody's gone up there for so long. Oh, yeah. So the other thing I had highlighted before they get there is she says, no, I won't turn into a beautiful lady at the end of this. This is what I look like. There's a lot of talk about beauty and ugliness, which I guess is also the, like, more explicit monster in human stuff, you know? She's like. I'm like, just a regular girl. Okay. That. I was kind of like, I don't. I don't need a lot of that. That's fine.

Yeah, it. That's. I mean, that has its demographic, I'm sure.

Yeah.

I appreciate that. That Toadling is who she is, and she's fine with it. Like. Like, she's just like. Just. Just so you know, I'm not gonna, like. I'm not gonna turn into, like, a hot chick when this is over. This is me. I am me. And he's like, yeah, I like you. You're cool.

Yeah. He's like, I'm ugly, too. Very Shrek coded.

I know.

It's.

It's so funny.

So they make it up to the tower and as you mentioned, she has to sort of like pull back on some of the magic. And the water's like, hell, yeah, we're going to flow. She's like, not yet. And it sort of lets out some of the magic and maybe too much of it because she hasn't controlled it for so long. They go up and we see Fayette on the bed. So once again we get mushrooms. So Fayette lay on the bed, bright as mushrooms in the dark. Her skin was white to the point of translucency and her hair fanned out around her. It had grown in her sleep, but only a little, enough to slide down over her shoulders in a golden curtain. Her dress had faded and was spotted with mold, the hems beginning to dissolve so that she looked as if she were growing out of the bed clothes herself. Gross, Horrible, sick, nasty.

But I mean, it makes sense. She's in a damp room for the last hundreds of years. 200 at the minimum. I feel like it's more than 200.

But yeah, the way I was thinking of it is like she's trapped in sleep. But like, we know that time moves differently in fairy than it does here. So it's kind of like, you know, that a little pocket of time as well. Yeah, exactly.

I also, I really like. I don't remember exactly where it is. I think it's here how totaling kind of jokes that any princes that did make it up to the top would have ended up disappointed because it is an 8 year old child. Like she, she's. She is a lovely child, but she's a child. She's not like a beautiful princess to rescue.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And we have another moment of. Of Toadling being kind of a. A pushover or too nice, I guess, because he says if I were a proper knight, he said mournfully, I should probably strike off your head with my sword and take the girl back to my mother. Don't do that. Said Toadling, alarmed. Your mother sounds kind. And Fayette would please don't do that.

Yeah, no comment about. No comment about you getting killed.

So they kind of hang around. Well, they're.

They're chatting a little and then.

And then chatting. Fayette wakes up.

Yeah.

And grabs onto Helim's wrist kind of like Helene grabbed Halim grabbed onto Toadling's wrist after the.

Sorry. I can hear the boys crying out for sustenance.

They're talking about how to contain her. And she talks about cold iron. Just another fairy thing.

Fairy thing.

So I'm just like, wow. Like, couldn't they have anyway. I don't know, maybe that's not enough iron. Put her in a cage.

I mean, yeah, like here's my thing is like there was probably a lot more that could have been done, but I just feel like the only person who is like everyone at the castle was like, oh, you've got this totaling sick. We're leaving now by like the king goes to a tournament and just never comes back.

Like he goes there for cigarettes.

He literally runs in for a bottle of milk and never comes back from the store. Like, and, and it's so frustrating because like everybody's just like, oh yeah, no, totally's got this. And like only one of the servants like even bothers to look back as they're leaving the castle and she's the only person there.

Yeah. So then Fayette's hand closed over Halim's wrist and she breaks his wrist. He's so polite to her.

I know, it's so funny. Halim is always polite and Fayette is.

Pissed and she tries to lash out against Toadling who she recognizes and tries to kill her. And Halim just pushes her off of the railing.

I do love first as. As because the being able to hold her breath for a long time comes back because. Yeah, because fans trying to strangle her and. But she still has these little tiny child hands. So it's taking longer than usual because her hands aren't big enough to really go around Toadling's neck.

It's like, like, it's like, it's like when those videos where it's like a car is coming, but it's coming at like three miles an hour. It's like, watch out.

It really made me think of. I don't know if you've seen Pet Cemetery. I don't know if you've seen Pet Cemetery. It's, it's, it's fine. But Gage is the little kid in that. And after he comes back, back wrong or whatever, he's trying to kill his dad. But it's so goofy because it's this like little cute, adorable like 4 year old child like holding a knife menacingly. And then when the, the dad like kicks him away because he's a small child, Gage gets up and he's like, no fail, no fail. And like wanders away. And that's what I was thinking of during this whole scene was like, someone just needs to kick that child. And then Halim does. He just kicks her off the tower.

It was kind of easy, honestly.

Totally mentions that like even though like he's A changeling. And eventually she would have been more powerful. Like, they. They caught her off guard. There's also a mention that, like, she might have. If she had, like, had a little longer, might have flown away instead of.

Yeah.

Falling. So, like.

That's right.

Thank God you finally did something about it. Totaling instead of ignoring the problem for longer.

Well, and as well. Fayette says I could call them. Yeah. Oh, boy.

Who's them? I wanted. I wanted to know more.

Well, Fairy Court.

Yeah, exactly.

And it seems like. And it. It's kind of interesting because that implies that Fayette has knowledge beyond her, you know, eight years or whatever. Like, she knows about.

Well, yeah.

She comes from.

They're talking a little bit about it when she's explaining changelings and. Totally. I almost called her Toadette. Toadling explains that some fairies think it's funny to, like, steal another Fairy Lord's child and put them, like, replace a human child with them because it not only enrages the other Fairy lord. And when their child eventually comes back, they're, like, not. They're too human. Much like Toadling is too fairy. She's not quite human anymore.

They come back. Not. Right.

They come back and they rest. Sometimes dead is better anyway. But there seems to be an implication that the child is also aware. The fairy child is also aware that they're, like, in the wrong place. And so I'm wondering if, like, maybe newborn Fae, like, have more awareness than, like, human children would. And are aware, like, have memories and are aware that they were stolen and.

Sure.

I don't know.

Maybe.

All I know is that girl ain't right. But now she's even less right because she is at the bottom of a tower. Oh, and Halim catches Toadling. She almost falls out as well and goes frog. Oh, she goes frog. Because she remembers she can breathe through her skin.

Yeah.

Which is. So she got strangled for so long before remembering.

Yeah, that's. I mean, she's doing her best.

She's doing her best.

She's doing her best. But, yeah, she goes frog so that, you know, Liam doesn't have to worry about it. And then she buries Fayette by asking the earth, requesting politely that the Earth take her in.

Yeah.

And she gets to release the water. And the water's like, God.

Yeah. Finally. Well, and we find out that this whole area has been kind of a desert for a long time because it's been in a huge, like, circle around the tower, drawing all the water to maintain the spell.

Right.

And I love that she has to bury Fayette. Because if. If a creature from the real world eats her remains, like, something awful could happen. So, like, the. The implication that, like, even in death, Fayette could be a major threat if not dealt with is. Is really cool.

Yeah.

And then the hair goddess shows back up. This. This bitch.

This bitch. So, like, I was sort of. When I was reading it, maybe I'm just reading too much into it, but, like, in terms of the area going dry, it parallels her releasing of that guilt and, like, feeling of responsibility. Like, the water goes and gets to, you know, like, the earth gets to revitalize itself. And I was seeing parallels in, you know, when you have that feeling of guilt and you hold on to it for so long, it does kind of, like, poison everything around you.

Absolutely. I don't think you're reading too much into it at all. I think that is a very astute observation of what is happening.

Yeah. So it's like a physical representation, the earth going dry and barren sort of represents that. Because I think you can feel guilty about something and you don't think about it affecting others, but it absolutely does, because the way that you treat others that you feel beholden to is different to different than if you didn't feel that way or even just like people around you sort of sensing that. That feeling and, like, I don't know, it can sort of poison that environment, I guess.

Absolutely. I agree.

Yeah. So sort of paralleling that. And also, I mean, internally, that feeling of guilt can. Can wreck your body as well. It can make you feel awful.

Yeah.

Physically can manifest itself. And, like, having that release is beneficial for everything. Being able to forgive yourself.

Well, and it's kind of too. When you think about it, crying literally makes you feel better. You are literally getting rid of excess. Like, what's that called? Stress. Basically, the stress hormones come out in your tears. And I feel like it's kind of representative, too, of totaling. Holding that in for so long. Like, it's been bottled up in this one place, and she finally gets to let it go and get that, you know, rid of that stress that has been weighing her down for so long.

Yeah, exactly. And, yeah, I think that's. Yeah, that's great. The other. The next part is also very relatable. It was paralyzing. How does anyone manage? There are too many streams. They all flow, and all of them could be good. And there's no way to know. How does anyone ever choose to do anything?

Yeah, I highlighted that, too. Agency is a curse as well as a blessing.

Agency is a curse. True. So, yeah, she chooses to go back to the green teeth. So kind of comes back.

The hair is like, I made a promise. Not to you, not to you. Totaling.

Yeah. I mean, she could have stayed, but she's like, I want to go back. So while Halim is sleeping, she goes with the hair and goes back to the green teeth. And it's very sweet. And I may have cried a little bit.

Oh, absolutely. My.

Before.

Before we get to the sweetness. The hair. The hair is like, finally. You finally did it. And totally's like, wait, you wanted me to kill her? Like, that's why you sent me. And the hair is like, well, yeah, the like, dead people do no harm. And I was like, why didn't you just tell her? And it's like this. It's the stupid political phase stuff where they're like, well, technically you're part of this royal family, so you had a. To like, intervene and kill her, whereas we don't have that right. And I'm like, just kill her. Like, what do you mean you don't have that right?

Like, yeah, just deal with the right to steal a baby. Like, you did this to begin with. You stole the baby to begin with.

So, like, anyway, yeah, it was very frustrating.

I didn't really care about the justification. So, yeah, so she goes back to the green teeth and she spends a couple of seasons, she says, with them, and they all greet her warmly and she gets to. To sleep in her pile again.

I love it. I have a couple of quotes from this part too. It's when she first arrives back, they all like swarm her, basically, and are so happy to see her. And it says it never occurred to her to doubt her welcome. Such was the gift of a child raised with love. And I was like, oh, that's so sweet that she was just like, she knew. And then. And then when she sees the eldest again, and then at last, the eldest, ageless, still with her necklace of hold stones and her teeth like sabers and fingers that could snatch a man from the riverbank and wrapped twice around his neck. Snails and water bugs lived in her hair. And she was so beautiful and so glorious that toadling's black tears mixed with the black water as the eldest lifted her up and croaked. Welcome home, beloved. Oh, I love. I love.

And you can see why I was like, this is a perfect ending. Yeah, I love it. She gets to be with her family again, like, go, Saleem. Or whatever. But like, so here's.

Here's my thing. I also though, like that little epilogue, because it shows also that totaling. Like the. When she asked her, because she says when that epilogue rolls around and she's like, oh, maybe, you know, I should go see Helim. She says, what? But what if. What if I stay a little longer? He wanted to meet his mother and maybe a Benedictine monk and rabbi. The old monster's eyes litted over as she smiled. We all outlive him, she said, by a thousand years. We'll be here afterwards. We'll always be here. You're ours, and we're yours. And, like, I. Ooh, that really got to me, because I. I do agree. Like, I love that she's reunited with them, but I also love that this explicitly tells her that, like, you're allowed to go and live your life, and we will always be here for you. And it just. Oh, it touched me so much.

It's explicitly unconditional. Like. Like the eldest says, it's. She's saying, go.

Yeah.

You know, like, it's. We'll always be here for you. And it's, like, so beautiful.

It really is.

I love that.

I love it, too. And I really want that rabbi to be freaked out when. When he meets.

Beautiful. So she gets to go back with a kelpie, which is a kind of horse.

It is indeed. I love that he's like, drown you later when he leaves.

So perfect. Yeah. She gets to hang out with Helim until he dies.

Yeah. Because it's been, like you said, it's been a couple seasons, but it's only been that night in.

Yeah. In the real world, basically, dawn is cresting the hill as she walks over, and. Yeah. She gets to hang it with him.

Absolutely.

She's also very beautiful.

Yeah. And she knows that she always has a home to go back to. I love it.

So how would you rate this one?

I gave it a five out of five. I really, really enjoyed it. I read it in one sitting. It's very short. It's like, 110 pages, I think, or something like that.

Yeah.

So, like, reading it in one sitting wasn't that much of a surprise. But I also read it in one sitting because I was enjoying it a lot. It was just a really sweet story. 5 out of 5. I have no notes on it. It's just a perfectly contained little fairy tale.

Yeah. I would give it, like, 4.5. I don't think it's, like, perfect for me, but it is close.

Yeah.

For me, that's super fun. Yeah. Still very good. And I still enjoyed it a lot. Still not horror, but not that's okay. Get out of this in the comments.

But you should read it anyway. Even though we just should read what it's about. You should just read it anyway. It's very cute.

Yeah. Easy read.

Easy peasy.

Yeah. So I think that's it. What do we. What do we.

I think it's time.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The wheel.

The wheel.

It's time for the wheel. And you are spinning it this time.

I am. Alrighty, here we go. No, I'm haunted. I'm haunted once again by the DNF graveyard.

Don't remove it.

Removing it. No, I'm kidding. Let me take a little peek and see what I have.

I mean, luckily this one's yours. I don't have a lot of DNFs.

Oh. I only have one left. And it is no Gods, no Monsters by Cadwell Turnbull. And this is one that I started and I did not get far. I made it maybe one or two chapters and it just did not click for me. I think it was the writing style and I think that it wasn't quite what I was expecting from, like, the back of the book when I. When I started reading it. So with a little more knowledge, I'm gonna give it another go and we'll see if I can make it through it.

All right.

Have you read this book?

No. No. I have heard of it peripherally, but not. I don't have any experience with it. So we'll see what happens. I'm gonna go in like I do a lot of books and not look up anything about it.

Yeah.

And we'll see what happens.

Heck, yeah. I'm excited.

Well, with that, thanks for listening. If you want more from us, our social media is in the show notes as well as a link to our discord where you can join the conversation and suggest some books.

So get out there and commit some David behavior.

Bye.

Bye.

I was trying to say it like.

You do sometimes, my little. My little voice. I do Ouija.