Donna.

Donna. Donna.

Donna. Beatrice.

Donna. Beatrice.

Get your tail back in here.

You get on back inside.

Donna. Maria. Catalina. I will not stand for that kind of language in my goddamn household.

Dirt all over your damn hands. Are you. Are you not the Donna of this house?

Donna. Joanna. Boy, I never.

This episode is gonna be just you guys bullying me.

You expected something different?

I would never maybe.

Welcome to David Behavior, a horror book review podcast. I'm Beth.

And I'm Marie.

And I'm Lex.

And today's David Behavior is generational trauma. So, before we get into the summary, we'd like to remind you to support your local bookstore. You can do that by purchasing a physical copy of this book or by listening to it on Libro FM to pick up an audiobook. It's also available on Libby at your local library. The book that we are talking about today is the Hacienda. It's a novel by Isabel Canas. It's about Beatriz Hernandez Valenzuela, who marries Rodolfo Solorzano in order to secure a future for herself and her mother in the aftermath of the Mexican War of Independence. She moves to San Isidro, and there is more living there than just a dead garden, which is not living.

No, but it's there. It's very there.

It's also there.

She tries to learn about what happened to Rodolfo's first wife and enlists the help of Padre Andres, who has a connection to the town and to the house itself.

Yes, indeed.

And I'm just gonna keep struggling through names, and I'm sorry.

That's okay. Names are hard.

Instead of helping, I'm just going to continue poking fun.

Yeah, but it's valid. And okay. Spanish names are hard to pronounce if you're not used to that specific type of accent. And like the second language, commonly where you come from is not Spanish. It's French. So that's very different.

Yeah. I would be making fun of you if this were French.

Exactly. Oh, yeah.

You want.

You want this to be hilarious. Get us to read a book with a lot of French names, and I will mispronounce them to the high heavens.

I will say, though, for a book that is going to be set as sort of a period piece in Mexico and features a lot of Spanish, Mexican names and other phrases, it's very English accessible, and even if I didn't understand some of the things that they were saying in Spanish, it's very easy to gather a lot of context clues while going through it. And the names are pretty straightforward. I Use a counterexample as the devil takes you home by Gabino Iglesias. That had a lot of Spanish elements in it, but it was a little hard for me to honestly follow if people are having a multi sentence conversation in Spanish. I got nothing and I kind of just had to skip over that paragraph without getting a whole lot out of it. This book doesn't have that problem. I really enjoyed it.

It's true.

I actually found that they, they do more translations than they really needed to in some parts. I feel like they could have left a few more of like the, the Spanish phrases in place. But like you said, the context clues, like it's very easy to pick up what's going on even if you don't have any Spanish.

And as long as you don't do something like recite names on a podcast for thousands of people to hear, then it's totally fine for you to just have these names going in your head, right, Beth?

Thousands.

Allegedly. Thousands.

Allegedly.

Supposedly.

If you don't have to read them out loud, I would say for that reason, listen to it.

Yes, I would highly, highly, highly recommend the audiobook. That's the version that I did for this reading. Both Lee Osorio and Victoria Villarreal, they did an amazing job in their chapters.

Oh, it has two narrators. I love that.

It does. Yeah. It's very good. Highly recommend that. If you are maybe not familiar with the language, it also helps kind of steep you in it a little bit more. I feel like just because they both give such like excellent emotional readings for both the characters. So it really helps to kind of put you into the story.

I can imagine that helps with one of my criticisms, which is I found it hard to relate to Beatrice. I just found that she was a little bit one note in her character. So I can imagine having somebody reading her lines out loud would make it a bit easier to understand the fullness of her character or get a bit more personality.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. She does. She's very. She's a very focused woman.

What are some similar media? I personally would recommend the September House, which no one has ever recommended to me before. I thought about it independently and read it independently and nobody told me about it.

Allegedly. Allegedly. Yeah.

Lex recommended it to me and I feel like it fits this story very well. It's another haunted house story and I feel like this story is a pretty typical haunted house story. But the September House also fits very well just because of the singular focus of reclaiming her freedom. And no spoilers for either of them, because we're still in the no spoilers section. But I feel like the characters fit very well and I also feel like they would be friends.

Yeah, I completely agree. It's funny that you describe this as a very traditional haunted house story because I'm going to have a little a few thoughts on that. But even though Beatriz and Patricia, who is the protagonist in the September House, have extremely different personalities, I think would be great friends, along with Noemi from Mexican Gothic. They are all very strong determinants, determined women who are looking to take charge of these haunted or otherwise corrupt houses that they find themselves in and I think could actually learn a fair amount from each other. I think that Beatriz's headstrongness would have done Patricia very well and Noemi kind of needed someone to talk to about it because she I won't get into spoilers. You can go listen to their other episode on Mexican Gothic. There's yeah, the Hacienda was my favorite read of 2023. I've been recommending it to pretty much everyone. It's a great summer book as well.

And as for me, guess who's back? Back again. That's right, it's Crimson Peak, directed by Guillermo del Toro. My go to recommendation. As far as gothic horror goes, it is a great movie. The back of the book description for the Hacienda kind of called it a Rebecca meets Mexican Gothic and I can definitely see the elements, especially from just like a broad stroke story. As far as Rebecca Goes, it has been a while since I read Rebecca and it's been a while since I saw the movie adaptation of Rebecca. But I actually kind of feel like that comparison does it a little bit of a disservice because the themes are very different between the two books and what they are trying to tell.

Yeah.

So in my opinion, I think that a closer gothic horror would be the Haunting. Honestly, any of the adaptations or the book itself. And yes, I include the horrible 1999 version of the Haunting as one of.

The ones that that's a weird way say amazing.

I feel like you would be shocked at people's poor taste, Lex. They are so hard on that wonderful adaptation. I think though, the one that would be best suited for the overall, the main vibes that I'm. I'm coming at it from are the sort of how the poltergeisting of the House goes. I definitely think that the series the Haunting of Hill House is probably the closest in terms of that for those.

Vibes and I think for a different kind of recommendation too. Speaking personally, if you are interested in tabletop role playing games, I think you should try and look at Music from a darkened room. I used a lot of inspiration from this book in my run of that scenario for things that we can get more into in the spoiler thing of it, but the two can be very compatible for another good spooky haunted house playthrough.

Alex, it's so funny that you bring that up. It's almost as though you have a podcast that has to do with tabletop RPGs. What?

The next thing you'll say is we reanimate a bunch of these RPGs.

What? Spooky? I will say we didn't give Lex much of an intro. Do we want to do that or is he just here?

I've actually been in every episode you've listened to. I just don't say anything. I'm Blair Witching over in the corner. Yes. Hi, I'm Lex. I'm one of the co hosts of RPG Reanimators, a GM advice podcast that reviews and discusses different tabletop RPGs, typically for a horror tilt. And whenever I'm not doing things related to horror gaming, I tend to read horror books. I bullied my way onto this recording here because I like the Hacienda so much and wanted to be able to talk about it.

Hell yeah. Well, thank you for being here.

I'm excited to be here. Thank you both for having me.

Okay, so in terms of my experience with the book, I had originally read this book in May 2024 at Lex's recommendation because I was in that run of music from a darkened room and I had several notes about it already. I in fact have two notebooks in front of me and the annotations from my ebook. Within those two notebooks I have three sets of notes. So I have a lot of notes, but the overall impression that I had was that I loved it. Interestingly, I thought that the character descriptions for Andras and Beatrice were very romance novel, but more obvious than Nine Hallows, so I wasn't caught off guard. We didn't have an eye in Hallow situation. I was aware of what was happening and definitely when we get to the spoiler section, I'll point out some of the descriptions that you would see in a romance. For example, like dark hair, eye color, striking features. I do feel like it works for this one though, because they're kind of in it together.

I think this book is a really rare example of a horror novel that has a solid romance b Plot that did not feel obtrusive. It felt like it blended in with the overall story. And I was really satisfied with it overall. I do think that the book ended a little abruptly, but I felt like the romance aspects in Hacienda worked a little better than they did in Mexican Gothic. For me. Maybe that's just my perspective. I have not read a lot of romance horror novels. Hormance, no, that doesn't work. That's not like Roman.

Let's not do that.

But yeah, I enjoyed it in this book.

And see, that's interesting, because that is where I am going to differ. This was my first reading of this book. I had not read it before. I. Like I said, I did the audiobook. I feel like that added a lot to it, especially the characterization of Andres and Beatrice. I didn't mind the romance. I didn't feel that it was obtrusive. The way, like you mentioned about the way it was in Einhallo in Hein Hollow. It kind of detracted from the story for me in this one. I felt more neutral about it, but I didn't. I didn't really care about their romance the way I kind of cared more about the romance in Mexican Gothic. I wanted the characters to find a happy ending in Mexican Gothic. Whereas in this one, I felt like if we did end up going the way of traditional gothic horror, where it kind of ends in tragedy, that I wouldn't have minded as much as I would have in Mexican Gothic.

Interesting.

When we get to the end, I think I'll have opinions about that.

I read this book hot on the heels of. Well, first I read Mexican Gothic and then I read and loathed the daughter of Dr. Moreau. Uh, then the hacienda came in firmly in third place. It was. But I was really pleasantly surprised with it. I went in with zero expectations, not knowing a whole lot about it, except that it was showing up on a couple of recommended lists and really glad I took a shot on it. I have bought no fewer than three copies for my friends. Whenever they keep asking, it's like, oh, I'm really looking for a new book. You know, just something entertaining, something happens to arrive on their doorstep, as I think it's really accessible and fun. I am resisting getting into spoiler territory. But something that I appreciated in it, that you get some of those classic gothic horror, ghostly spooks and scares with like blood and writing and things like that. But then it's not as bad as all that. So I wouldn't feel bad recommending this To a more casual reader that things like severe gore and body horror would be unappealing to them.

Yeah.

Yeah. I was trying to get my romance group chat to read it. No luck yet, but you'll get there.

They might enjoy the Vampires of El Norte a bit more.

I know. I also tried to recommend that one. And no bites yet.

That's one I find is sort of the. I feel like Isabel. Kanye kind of did a flip flop between the Hacienda to Vampires of El Norte because this one is mostly horror with some romance. And I really felt like Vampires was mostly romance with some horror elements. Kind of like a 7030 flip.

Yeah, I would agree with that.

And I haven't read Vampires of El Norte, but the back of the. The back of the book, from what I did read on it, that's kind of the vibe that I get from it. I also didn't get that much horror from it. Maybe there's more in the text itself.

But, like, it's more of a romance set in a horror story. If I had to describe it, the.

Premise didn't seem like it was that horrific compared to this setting specifically.

Depends on what you find horrific.

I think that's very fair and valid. But it seemed just like a cowboy book. Like, it seems like a cowboy book. I don't. I haven't read it once again, but gave me western vibes. Just from what I read on the back.

That is not off at all. It's very Western cowboy with vampires. I don't think that's a spoiler because it's literally in the title.

It's literally the title. I did pick up that there might be vampires involved just from, you know.

Should we spoiler tag it or bleep that out or anything?

Maybe you might want to bleep it. I think it'd be funny.

The word vampire.

Yeah, just the whole time. Cat emergency. Well, Beth handles the cat emergency. And before we get into spoilers, I did just want to touch on some content warnings from this book. There are pretty prevalent themes of racism, especially colorism, as well as SA and pregnancy. There's a little bit of gore, but it's not too bad.

Not really. It's very. If you watched Crimson Peak, that is worse than this book. It's pretty tame. Just great evocative imagery whenever it does happen. I do think that the racism and especially the colorism are the most prevalent content warnings. If that is something that affects you, you may struggle with this book, but there is a reason that it is in here. And I think that it plays into Beatriz's motivations quite significantly. It's not just thrown in for the heck of it.

Absolutely.

And nothing else that I can think of.

All right.

Sick sexism. But that's.

I mean, that's just.

Oh, yeah. Content warning for patriarchy. There we go.

The patriarchy, colonialism. They're both here to play, as always.

With that done, let's get into the spoilerful section. All right.

I immediately have a complaint.

Okay, go for it.

It's not a huge complaint, but it did bother me. I tend to not enjoy it when a movie or other media opens in media res.

You don't?

I don't really.

But why.

But why?

I feel like it is often, and I'm not saying it always is, because, like, as I got further into the book, I forgot about it. It's fine. It doesn't bother me to the point where it makes me not enjoy it, but I feel like it is often used in media as a kind of a crutch to be like, oh, we're going to. We're going to get you in here real quick because, ooh, look, something exciting's coming down the road. And now let's go back to 24 hours before whatever they flashback to, like.

A YouTube video that has, like, the exciting thing from the middle of the video happening so they can clickbait you in. Is that what you're comparing it to?

That's kind of what I feel like. Yeah. And it's. It's not always used that badly. And once again, this is not the worst example of it that I have read, but it did, like, just briefly make me go, oh, this is going to be one of those books. When I read that, I. I am.

Going to say that kind of hurts me because I would never steer you wrong. I recommended this book, and I didn't.

Say that I dislike the book, Beth. I think that. I think that, like most of the people who have reviewed this book and the reviews that I unfortunately read, a lot of people have an issue separating things they don't like from this book is bad. It's not a bad book. It's great. I liked it.

Aren't you on the Internet? Yeah. If I don't like something, that means it's bad. It is objectively bad because I don't like it.

You're so right. It's so fair. It's so valid.

I just didn't like that chapter.

Did you not like it because it opened in media res and immediately jumped to, like, the exciting climax instead of building up.

I didn't like it because I had no context for what was happening. So I'm like, I'm not going to remember this later. I'm just not going to, so. And I didn't because it went into my head and then it left again. And I'm like, I don't know who any of these people are. I don't know what's happening.

So, I mean, that's completely fair because the entire thing is less than one page, front and back. Like, Marie, I don't disagree that it's. It's kind of a tactic, in my opinion, to hook people who may have picked this up at a bookstore and are, huh, let's see, what's this about? Because I feel like it's very short and it mostly relies on a lot of really evocative writing and description, which I really enjoyed. I loved the like. It doesn't pay any relevance to the remainder of the story, but talking about wandering the fields as a boy taught me agave flesh does not give like a man's. The tracheros lift their machetes and bring them down again and again, each dull thud seeking the heart sweet SAP. And I don't know, it just seemed kind of brutal and metal. I'm expecting something gory. I'm expecting that kind of attack and hacking on a torso the whole time. So I was like, oh, okay. And then we get into actual narrative building with Beatrice and everything.

Yeah. I think my main problem with it is that it in the. Like you said, it's barely, what, two pages? If that. I did the audio.

It's truly just a page front and back. You have, like, the chapter header that eats up space, but, yeah, less than one full page.

I loved, like you said, the description of, like, comparing himself to the cactus and everything. I thought that was fantastic. It immediately spoils the romance plot. It immediately spoils, like, what's going to happen at the end of the book. I just. I don't like it when books do that. It feels cheap.

I think it's valid. For me, it was one of those, like, oh, hey, it's that guy from the trailer. I also wasn't paying attention. Like, I didn't know that there was going to be a romance plot whenever I read this book, largely blind. So I don't know, like, agree to disagree. I didn't mind it, but I can see where you're coming from.

No, and like I said, it's not the worst example in. In any media that I have seen. It was. It Was fine. And it's like you said, very brief, gone in a blip. But media res. It'll always come back to haunt me in the moment.

I think I skipped over it.

That's so funny.

What is this? An author's foreword statement. Bye. But then the book opens on actually meeting Beatriz and all of that. So, Beth, you want to jump back in for that there?

I think I forgot about it entirely because I, again, number one, I, like, completely wasn't paying attention to anything in it because I knew that I didn't know anybody and I wasn't going to make notes on, like you say, a very short period of time, of time. And I'm like, this is a prologue at best. And I don't. I don't know, it was intentional, but it wasn't. It didn't hook me. I guess after that, we do open up on Beatrice and we learn about her dad. Once again, I'm, like, revealing my French disability, my lack of historical context, I guess, because I don't know anything about the politics happening here.

Right. So Beatrice's dad was a general in the Mexican War for Independence. He specifically was fighting for Mexican independence from Spain. But he was willing to. He was one of the. The few generals involved in the war who was willing to come to the table if it meant peace and possibility of, like, not killing people. Which in the end, when the revolution did succeed, the other people involved in the revolution saw him as a traitor because he was willing to meet at the table with the Spaniards instead of always fighting against them.

Okay, interesting.

And it was something that I liked about the setup for that, is that, you know, this mob essentially busts into their house, drags the dad out, and then sets the place on fire with his wife and daughter still inside. And it's all that they can do is try to scramble out in the nick of time and try and find someplace to stay. Beatrice's mother, whose name is eluding me at the moment, she didn't really have anyone else to turn to except her sister, who is a piece of shit. And I appreciated how it really emphasized with her dad that people kind of spit on the ground whenever anything about him gets said. But it was really like his main crime was being on the losing side. And he believed in good things. He tried to do what he thought was right. And so it gives Beatriz a solid moral ground to stand on and to try and fight for her own freedoms and protection within the constraints of the patriarchal systems that are currently established everywhere there.

Yeah. And not just the patriarchy, but the casta system as well in Mexico. Because her father was mestizo, which means mixed race. He was part indigenous, part Spaniard, essentially, which means that she, as well, is. And that's why the family, like, shunned her family. Aside from this crappy aunt that you're talking about, I. She made me so mad, dude. As soon as. As soon as she starts. Opens her mouth. And I will say to this, this opening scene, this is what caught me. This is the attention grabber for me, because it immediately. I related intensely to it, because my family, one side of my family at least, was in Mexico around 1916. It was during Pancho Villa and Emiliano Zapata's rebellions that were going on. And my family at that time were fairly wealthy landowners. They had a hacienda because of the divide between landowners and the poor who were rebelling, which makes complete sense. My family had to flee from their home, and my great great grandfather was killed in the process. And honestly, in a lot of ways, Beatrice reminded me a lot of my great great grandma, because my great grandma did, like, what she had to do to ensure that her children were safe. She remarried almost immediately in order to kind of secure a home for them. And I believe he also passed away. I can't remember if it was more. More rebel stuff or if it was age or anything like that, but eventually she ended up marrying an American soldier in order to get into the United States with her children, because she felt that that was the safest and best, like, route for them. There's a lot of people that would look back on that and be like, well, she just used those men. And, like, yeah, she did. But, like, I completely understand where she was coming from. And I think that in, like, my family background and context really helped me to relate immediately to Beatrice in a way that I feel like some people. Like I said, I read some reviews, and a lot of people do not like Beatrice, like, at all. And I found that really weird, because.

Those people are wrong.

Yes, they are. But people have an issue oftentimes when women basically do what they have to do in order to secure their future. And that is 100%. Like, from the beginning, what we get from Beatriz is, like, she has this traumatic memory of her. Her father being killed, of her house being burned down, and never wanting to let anything like that happen again.

Yeah. And in a lot of ways, you know, her mother is doing what she has to do to try and look out for the both of them by moving in with her sister. And her, I'm sorry, I'm blanking on their names. But by moving in with her sister and her equally shitty husband, they really subjugate and kind of abuse Beatrice and her mom whenever they're there. This is where a lot of the colorism that we mentioned earlier comes in as the I'll just call her her aunt is constantly saying, oh, stay out of the sun, you're never going to get a husband that way. And she always criticizes Beatriz for being too dark, whereas her three daughters are all very light skinned. And it's a lot of just digging comments like that. And Beatriz is very headstrong if nothing else, and constantly wants to clap back at her. And her mother, who is I would describe as very stoic, would give like very small, very slight gestures and it's like, no, this is our only option. We have to put up with this. So it really puts Beatriz in this hard state that whenever she goes to a ball and sees this, you know, wealthy handsome looking guy kind of wheeling his head around and catches her eye, she sees Rodolfo as her ticket out. If he is this wealthy dude who happens to take a shining to her, she is willing to do what it takes to get herself in as a wife, get into a house and a property that she can set her mother up in. That's her main motivation through most of the book is getting this hacienda set up so that she can move her mom out of this shitty aunt's house to try and take care of her. And yeah, it's really doing what whatever it takes to try and protect her and her own in that way. And it's truly a come hell, ghosts are high water situation that she tries standing up and taking control of this hacienda over the resident poltergeist.

Well, we get as well a bit more in terms of her motivation. So there's a callback to that stay in the shade with Rodolfo later on when he is like, he comes back and he says, you're not wearing your hat. We also get when she sees him at the party at the ball, it's the silence with which the room watched him. I wanted to cup a room in my palm to tell it to be still, to tell it to hush. And that's also foreshadowing for later as well. When she actually does end up getting the house to hush, she tells, you know, she does control the house, it is her house. So that's kind of a nice callback or foreshadowing I guess. In this case, because it's before the thing that happens. And she talks about safety and owning the hacienda, something that's hers, a place that she can stay, that she actually owns. And there is later in the ritual, we do see that she does own it through marriage. There is, I guess, like a spiritual ownership as well, because she's able to command and she's able to give permission for Andres to command.

Yeah. I think a big recurring theme that I've noticed in this on a reread is this book has a lot of instances of women wielding power from within the constraints of cultural patriarchy and that they really don't have much of a say within these broader social systems. But while they're here, they're going to do what they can. I mean, even aside from Beatrice, like, you get Juana and others that are, you know, trying to manage and wield this power, even though, you know, patriarchy sucks ass.

Yeah, for sure.

After the ball, that's her sort of reminiscing about how when she meets Rodolfo, and after that we arrive at San Isidro and she meets Juana, who is Rodolfo's sister, and puts up the map and we sort of get a reflection on the nature of authority. And just like you said earlier, it's claiming authority and claiming ownership from within the system. So Rodolfo is there for like a blink and then he's gone. So Beatrice is left just on her own to deal with everything. Yeah.

Defend for herself, to try to, like, get the servants to see her as someone who is an authority. While dealing with Juana, who Rodolfo had not really told her anything about Juana whatsoever. I don't even think he mentioned that he had a sister prior to her coming, which we later learned why that is probably the case.

Yeah.

And, you know, despite what comes later on with Wanna, I loved Juana, like from the get go because he is such a character.

Like, I. I went. It just felt like a roller coaster. Every time she was around, I'm just like, oh, she kind of sucks. Oh, I respect. Really. And it just didn't know what you were going to get 100%.

When we first meet her, it's kind of that trope that I do get tired of where it's like, oh, two women with like, the tiniest modicum of power in the system they're in, they have to tear each other down. But then we meet her again a little later and she, like, is weirdly soft towards Beatrice and is more kind and open with her about, like, her own struggles, like, being a woman in this society. And then the next scene, she's an asshole again. Like, she kept. She was very hot and cold for me, but I did. I liked her up to a point. I believe it was. Her line about it was racist, whatever she said. I was like, oh, okay, never mind. Juana, you've lost me. You've lost my love.

Had it and lost it.

Well, I think they all have a different relationship to the house. And I see that sort of going through the whole book. And Juana's relationship is that it will never be hers. And I think that she is used to seeing people as a means to forward her own motivations. And the only way that she could possibly get the house is if Rodolfo dies. And if Beatrice dies, which she attempts. But it needs to look suspicious, which needs to look not suspicious, I guess.

It's been two years since Maria Catalina died, right?

I think.

Why hasn't Juana just killed Rodolfo in the intervening two years at some point?

Like, I think because he's never there.

And so this is something that I thought was really interesting in the book. And one of my few critiques would have been I would have liked to have seen a little more backstory and introduction. You know, that archetypal carriage ride across the mountain to the looming house. Because, you know, as we begin the book, we are introduced to Beatriz, the whole situation, and then, bam. She's at San Isidro, which is essentially the small town around the hacienda that Rodolfo has inherited from his father. Because during the war, the father invested in Maguey, which is. It basically sounded kind of like a tart lager beer that's made from agave. And so, you know, no matter how often people are killing each other, they're gonna want to drink. So that is how they kind of weathered this whole storm. But there are a few lines where Rodolfo kept asking if Beatriz would rather just stay at his nice, posh apartment in the city, because, boy, he sure does like to spend his time there. And he really doesn't spend much time at all at this hacienda. But Beatrice pushes for it because, again, her main motivation is getting a place for her mom and her to stay. So he's like, well, all right. And he goes there. From the outset, it is clear that Juana and Ana Luisa and the other staff are living in these smaller houses and abodes outside of the main house. And no one is really spending any time within the the main structure of the hacienda. And Juana, I think, just hates Rodolfo's guts anyways because of reasons we'll get into shortly. But everyone knows this place is haunted as shit and they don't want anything to do with it. So I think that there's a bit of a smirk on all of their lips when it's like, oh, honey, you're gonna. You're just gonna move in on all this? Have fun. Yeah, by all means, be my guest. And there's a great scene where as Beatriz is walking up the steps, there's a rat with its head split open on the step of the door. And wanna just kind of makes an aside comment. Oh, yeah, it's. The cats here can be a bit aggressive. You don't mind, do you? And then the chapter ends with Vietnamese saying, I haven't seen a cat my entire time being here. There's a lot of tensions that are already embroiled from the outset that it felt. Marie, kind of like you said, it felt like I was dropped in. In media res again, that I was trying to piece apart everyone's relationships and dynamics with each other.

Yeah. And we haven't really touched on, like, he just has had the opening chapter so far. But like, I really enjoyed Andres chapters throughout this and his POV a lot. But that also kind of muddled some things for me. Just because his timeline kind of jumps.

Around so much, especially in the beginning. Yeah. He's like, and I was in the seminary and now I'm back. I'm like, whoa, hey, who are you? I'm still remembering your name.

Who are you? Where did you come from? Yeah, the timeline at the beginning. I felt like I wouldn't by any means call this a fast paced book, but I do feel that it was lacking that slow burn that you kind of get in these more gothic novels as you read them. It kind of just like started right away.

My impression of it was in terms of, like, if we're thinking of romance books, that we'd had a previous book and Andres was like, on the side. You know how you have the main couple and then there's like the guy on the side and you're like, oh, the next book's gonna be about him. That's my impression, is that we were supposed to have read that first one.

Yeah.

So that we already know him.

I kind of. Yeah, that's kind of the feeling that you get from it. Just because it's so like, here he is and here's his shtick. And if you don't get it, that's fine. And I feel like a lot of the criticisms I read about his side of the story I do disagree with because I do think that the book did explain them. It's just. It didn't expand on them. I feel like. Yeah, enough to where people were able to kind of get more of his. His whole ish. That was going on, I think.

Yeah, I think that the book does this a lot. You know, even with Beatriz, we're kind of learning a few things about her as the things are going. And I agree that I would not describe this book as fast paced. But what I do say whenever I recommend it is that it does not waste any time. And basically, as soon as she arrives at San Isidro, weird shit starts happening. And it felt like one of my critiques and why I don't read too many gothic horror books is that that slow burn requires a lot of initial investment up front that sometimes I'm just not here for. I think that Isabel, Kanye has tried to, you know, hook people with that first chapter using that evocative language. Okay, now we're here. Here's Beatriz. Here's this weird shit. Here's Andres. There's that shit. Okay, good. And now we're on with the main story. So, like the beginning of it maybe has a few fits and starts, but it's just because by the 20% mark, like we are all in the present and moving forward now.

Yeah, for sure. And I do want to touch on too. I. I probably should have done this in the prior section, but Isabelle, Kanye's writing. I did not realize that this was a first time like novel for her.

I didn't know this was her first novel. It's so good.

It's so good. Her writing is so evocative and so beautiful. I was extremely hungry because the way she describes food is fantastic. And I have a note here that Kanye describes horror with the same loving detail as she does the food. And I'm here for it.

I fully agree. I'm really shocked because this does not feel like a first novel at all. And I've read this two times now. And something that I love that Kanye does is she applies such great descriptions that I would not have immediately guessed from the get go. In this chapter, she describes the buildings in San Isidro as muscular and ungainly. There's a lot of anthropomorphizing of the buildings here, which, especially when you get into the hacienda, like it makes this House feel like an oppressive thing, an actual presence. It doesn't necessarily feel like there is a poltergeist in the house, but that the house itself exudes this menacing personality. Really good stuff. I stole a lot of descriptions out of this book.

Hell yeah.

It's also super funny because she teases the main MacGuffin of the book right on page 14. It's as soon as Beatrice walks in the house, she's like, oh, wow, that railing's pretty high off the ground. Someone could fall off that. Rodolfo, we don't talk about that here. Let's just go up to our room and like, boom. I didn't even notice she. It was Chekhov's railing the whole time.

I love a good Chekhov's railing. Like Chekhov's anything is always a ton of fun.

So the other thing that I really liked that was kind of a red herring, but also something that I really enjoyed, was that the house already is alive. Yes. It already has a personality. So it's like the house itself is being possessed, which I thought was a really. I liked that a lot. I thought it was really cool because at the end you're like, oh, this house could always speak to Beatriz and Andres, like it always spoke to them. But it's being possess itself. It's all. It's being inhabited against its will.

Yeah, I love that so much. Actually, one of my notes is, especially in Andres chapters. I love how much personality the hacienda has and how he immediately notices, like, the change in it when he does come back. I almost felt like the house was infected by what had happened. Like it was fighting a sickness.

Yeah. And that's part of Andres motivation as well with the house, is he sees it as sick and he needs to heal the wound, just like in the war. That's his whole motivation, if we're like distilling it down, is that he needs to heal 100%. And the way that he does that.

And I love. And I love that the house is sick with Maria Catalina's poltergeist. And that, like, the main threat of this book is a poltergeist that's a fucking bitch. So catty. She's so mean. And that, like, there are no scares whenever Rodolfo is around because she's like, oh, yeah, this is my husband that I still love. And so the house is pretty tame around him. That's why he doesn't ever really notice anything is wrong and everyone else is acting weird. But then as soon as Beatriz is left There alone, weird creepy shit starts happening.

Yeah.

So one of the first events that happens is she's very excited to show off her silks and these very nice dresses and things. That was, like, one of the last things that her mother bought for her was this lovely blue silk dress. And she opens her trunk and it is full of blood. And Juana was giving her a tour of the property. And at this point is you get the first inclination that wanna, they know what's going on here. Because she just basically says, nope, don't think about it. Don't touch anything. Don't touch your face. And takes her to the kitchen and washes it off. And the kitchen is reeking of copal and different herbs and things to essentially try to keep Maria Catalina's spirit at bay. And after Beatrice, I'm just going to say, fails a persuade role, essentially, Juana's like, all right, well, kicking your ass out the door. Have a good night, champ.

Yeah, yeah.

And I love that scene with Juana because this is what I was talking about, where she's so hot and cold, where when we first meet her, she's so rude to her. She's so mean. She makes that comment about the rat and the cats. And then the next scene, like, she's vulnerable. She's vulnerable. And it's. It's because. It's because Beatrice chooses to be, like, extremely honest and vulnerable with her. And I. I wish that Juana's character had a.

An arc.

It felt like she could have had more of an arc. Yes. It felt like she could have changed and learned something and still had the end that she had. But I felt like she was very stagnant, and it kind of disappointed me because I did like her. And I felt like there was a. A little bit of, like, potential for her to have an arc and to learn something.

Yeah, she was very, like, villain the whole way through. Even. Even when we understand her, it's still. She still does villainous things. I feel like that's not fair. I don't think it's. Not to say realistic, but I feel like we didn't get enough of a motivation for her to continue to be villainous, I guess.

I think she's always kind of been sort of a piece of shit that, you know, like, sticks with herself among the workers, but always subjugates the workers and people around her. I think, as she is in many ways, Beatrice's opposite in terms of, like, she has this authority and beats others down with it where she can at least, like, aside From Ana Luisa. Not a lot of people seem to be a fan of her by any means. There's. Is it Ana Luisa's daughter or her niece that like, actively hates Juana and keeps looking at her like a puma that's about to pounce?

Yeah.

And so like, Juana was already complicit with Maria Catalina's first murder in the house and all of that, and she's kind of just become an alcoholic and it's just like, well, this fucking sucks. And keeps drinking. And I feel like she already gave up on a lot of things before the book took off. That's kind of like what you were saying earlier. It's like we missed the first volume and we're starting it at volume two. I appreciated that, like, Juana's role, she was kind of a villain at first, then eased up. And then while we were so focused on the house and Maria Catalina's spirit, Juana then comes back up as a more instrumental villain about at like the 70% mark.

I think that's where my problem is, is that it does seem like she gave up. And I feel like we didn't get enough of a motivation for her to be pushed to those actions again. Because it seems like she is just sort of existing by rote. She doesn't have. And maybe. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's the threat of being exposed as a bastard. Like, maybe that's. But I don't think she was even threatened by that. Rodolfo just hated her and just used it against her, which I feel like wasn't out of the ordinary.

Well, I think with. With Rodolfo never being around, it gave her the power and the. Yeah, like that she. She wanted.

Sure.

Him coming back and bringing a new wife who immediately starts to try to push her own authority over the house and over immediately. Like, I feel like that's kind of what pushed her. And then Beatrice bringing Andres into the house again, stirring up these things that she wanted hidden, I think is kind of what ended up pushing her to that in the very end.

I guess that's what I mean. I understand that. I think that was happening because she's so hot and cold. I don't see a ramp up, I guess, is what I mean. That's fair because there is a ramp up in actions and there is a ramp up in motivation and for her to do something. But we don't see that reflected in.

Her ambience on the.

No, I feel like we see that happen behind the scenes. Like, while she sort of takes A back step and other events in the book are going on. She's still lurking in the background. But I don't think that the book really puts a spotlight on her enough for the reader to be fully aware of what is happening in those moments.

I will say I called her as the killer pretty early on because literally the only thing the ghost says for a long time is wanna you bitch come out.

Yeah. And then there's a Rodolfo for a little bit, but I think that's only because he was there.

Yeah.

So I think it's very clearly. Yeah, it wasn't subtle.

Yeah. I will say I also, you were commenting on her love for Rodolfo and like, her not acting out during those times that he was there. I like, say what you will about horrible human beings, Rodolfo and Maria Catalina. I guess there's someone out there for everyone though, because, like, they match each other's freak.

Like, honestly, you're not wrong.

Except I feel like if this was modern, he would like, suggest an open marriage and she would be really bitter about it.

Maybe. I don't know. She really struck me as someone who was just like, whatever you want, baby. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, except for killing Mariana.

Well, yeah, but that's because. What if she said something?

Whatever you want, baby. Except for that.

Except for that.

She is on a bunch of bastards around the countryside was, I think the. Yeah, she said.

No, that's fair. But once again, though, she's not blaming Rodolfo.

No.

Which she should be, because it is his fault. He is a rapist piece of. But she is blaming the woman instead and taking it.

Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I have something off topic that reminded me of just the relationship between the house.

Oh, were we on topic for something?

You know, that was in my notes from earlier, just the relationship of Andres and Beatrice to the house. So I wrote down that in Andres pov, he comes back to a pawn and it's the people that feel like home rather than like the house itself. And the house as like an entity feels like home to him. Whereas for Beatrice, it's like the house as what it represents, as like freedom. So it's not necessarily like the house itself for her. It's more symbolically what it represents and less about the people necessarily. So I feel like there's that sort of. Not contradiction, I guess. I guess the contradiction comes from where the expectations come in. Where Andres has expectations, people expect things from him, but it's home to him, despite those expectations. Whereas for Beatrice it's home because of the expectations that are on her.

Yeah, yeah, I get what you're saying. And I do feel like as time goes on and as she begins to kind of see it through his eyes, as they spend more time together and he's helping her with everything, I feel like she starts to see it as more of a sum of its parts, including the people within it, instead of just seeing it as what it can do for her family. She starts to understand what it means for everyone else who lives there.

Yeah, for sure. And to get back to the plot, here's a lot.

No, I'm kidding.

So the first night when she gets pushed out into the house, Juana and Anna Louisa just kind of don't tell her anything and get her drunk and say, go, be free. And she gets. Ends up getting pushed down the stairs.

Yeah, yeah, it's something. This book follows that very stable haunting trends where at night is whenever Maria Catalina is at her peak. And she just constantly is, like, running hands and things around Beatrice's face to freak her out some. There's this giggling and kind of moving and shuffling around. Then as she gets to the stairs, then, yeah, she just feels these cold hands shove her straight down that, like. Yeah, Maria is just a bitch. And honestly, it's kind of fun. Just from her perspective, she's just like, yeah, girl, you're in my house now. And so, like, her night is. She is spent, like, trying to keep this Kopal burning and, like, is desperately clinging to a candle, basically. She's not sleeping for nights at a time. And then whenever morning comes around, of course she's frazzled, she's exhausted, and she goes to look at her silks that were covered in blood earlier, and it's gone. This is what I was referring to. That, like, a lot of the haunting elements can have, like, the walls dripping blood and whatnot. But then it tends to vanish over time. There's a phenomenal scene towards the end of the book whenever they're trying to exorcise Maria Catalina, where she vomits blood. Yes. Beatrice watches herself vomit blood and then see these hard white specks in it, like her teeth have gone out with it. Beth, I did that to your character. Music from a darkened room. Cause I was just like, that's fucking great. Because then it flashes to Andrea's perspective, and she's just screaming. And it's the whole thing with Maria Catalina is that, like, she just can cause you to see things and hallucinate, which just causes you to panic. I mean, like, it's it's really terrifying for the victim in this case. Her powers, I guess, seem to be subdued during the day, but that doesn't stop her from fucking with Beatrice once again. Whenever she's, like, walking through the house, basically picking out the new drapes and how she's going to paint the walls when part of the wall falls away and she sees a skeleton in a very, like, Edgar Allan Poe sense, where, like, there's this glinting gold necklace and the skeleton's broken neck causes Beatrice to just freak out, screaming for people to come by. And you get that other classic trope of then, like, oh, oh, she's losing it. Is she unwell and just. Yeah, turning everything around on her. It's very fun.

That scene where she finds Maria Catalina is so interesting too, because it feels like that is also part of the haunting because it's like the wall bends out towards her and then she, like, knocks her head. It's very strange. But then she does, because, like, how else is she going to uncover a wall? It seems like it kind of happens.

So that part was interesting to me because I, I, that part made me specifically curious if that was the hacienda trying to show her what was wrong.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Yes.

Yeah.

Maria Catalina fucking with her more. And I was gonna say too, with what? You kind of touched on it, Lex, with the trope of, like, oh, she hasn't been sleeping well. She like, are you not doing okay? Are you, are you going crazy? Or whatever? I hate that trope, honestly, in, in media a lot of the time. But it was more tolerable in this for me because of Juana's initial reaction to the blood in the chest.

Yeah.

So, like, I knew that Juana was aware that something was happening and that it was not all in Beatrice's head or anything, but she was the first.

One to start that. Oh, you don't look like you slept much. Like, truly, it just felt like wanna was being shitty to put the screws on her because she could.

Exactly, exactly. But yeah, the, the wall crumbling down and showing that. That, to me really spoke of, like, the hacienda trying to show her what was wrong and what was, like, infecting it.

So maybe the hauntings in the day were the hacienda, and then those at night are just going to be Maria Catalina because, like, that's clearly whenever she has the most mojo. I don't know if there's a proper term for it, but I just love, like, all of her. I just love all the Descriptions, though, that she's this shadowy thing that's like the shadows move slower than you bring the light in the room. Like, great details that give me goosebumps. And then she just sees these burning red cinder eyes as Maria Catalina is on the other side of the door. And it's. Ah, it's so much fun. So much fun.

Yeah, it's good. I actually didn't think about the house being the day and Maria Catalina being at night. That makes a lot of sense because the house can manipulate itself, whereas Maria Catalina's thing is temporary. Right.

Damn, I gotta read this again.

Oh, it's good. Yeah. That explains a lot, actually. I wish it was a bit more explicit, but maybe I'm just dumb.

Do you think we can get the house's stat block in the end of the book?

Oh, yeah.

But I do feel like there is quite a bit of subtlety to Tanya's writing and maybe a little bit too much for how kind of quickly everything goes. Because I do feel like a lot of people. Like I said, I was reading reviews, and it feels like a lot of people just missed stuff. And I'm not sure if it was just because, like, it happened. It was like a blip and it happened. And maybe they didn't latch on to it the same way that I did when I read it, but, like, a lot of the things they were complaining about were things where I was like, well, they explained that. They did explain that. Like, they. They talk about it over here. Like, I don't know why they didn't see that. And I'm like, maybe listening to it helped me pick up on that more maybe than just, like, reading through it or something. But I'm not sure.

I'm a bad person to ask because I'm a slow reader. And like you had mentioned before, I was hanging on Kanye's every word and description because it's. Her prose is really good and flavorful. And then the scares are also set up very well. Like, yeah, I only have good things to say about this book, honestly.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. So after Maria Jetelina is found in the walls, Andres is introduced. Like a romance main character.

He really is.

So tell me more. Tell me more from someone who doesn't read a lot of romance novels.

She goes to church.

Take me to church.

Well, she goes to church to get an exorcist, basically. Like, from the outset, she's like, all right, I gotta get somebody in here.

Yeah. And she has to bring a letter from her husband for permission, Give permission for them. To come into the house, which is.

Well. And it's not even permission for, like, an exorcism. It's permission for them to come and do a blessing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in terms of the romance description, a lot of the romance stuff is talking about his dark hair, his dark eyes, describing the way his, like, mouth looks and things like that. The real romance part comes in. It's very, like, very comedy. It's very meet cute. But it's also, like, very funny because she goes into the confessional to meet him, to, like, talk to him. This is actually. Sorry, this is after they've already been to the house, so they've done the blessing.

Vicente comes in and she's like, I need an exorcism. And he's like, shut up, woman. You don't know what you need. And he blesses the house and leaves. But. But Andres tells her to come to the church, basically.

That's right. So she goes back to the church the second time to talk to Andres, and it's been like two days and she hasn't slept. She goes into the confessional, sees him there, and then one of Vince Vincente comes in and is like, what are you doing in here, Andres? And he's like, I'm taking a confessional. And he's like, you can't do that. And he's like, I left my book. And so they meet in the shed out back. The, like, romance thing is like, they literally collide into each other. So she's going into the shed out back to meet him. And it says, I turned a corner. A worn wooden door, only about as tall as I was, had been left slightly ajar. Its angle an invitation. Was that the door to the sacristy storeroom. I slipped through it as quickly as I could and collided very solidly with Padre Andres. And that's, like, extremely tropey.

Yeah, I also. Because then the other Padre. Padre. I forget his name. Guillermo. He comes. Padre Guero Doro comes in. Who is warmer. Warmer towards Andres than Vincenti is. Vincente is.

Is.

And. And this goes back to the colorism and the casta system that is in place. Vincente is Spaniard. He is a Spaniard priest. And I believe the other one is as well, but he's warmer. But Vincente still has a lot of Spanish Inquisition vibes to him when he speaks.

Yeah, Vincente is like a minor pain in the ass villain. Like villain with air quotes. He's just an obstacle the whole time. And. Yeah, just a dick.

Yeah, he really is. But the Other one comes in. He's like, hey, Vincente was complaining. And he's like, oh, I left my book there. But she has to, like, hide under some storage to. To hide while that priest comes in. And so him, like, coming over and, like, picking up the little tablecloth and, like, looking at her, like, the way it describes it. Like, I. I don't have the exact quote, but she basically says, like, he's more handsome than a priest should be. And I'm just like, girl, like, you immediately have it bad for this guy. But. And also, I have a note here that says, Andres chews on his lower lip more than Bella Swan.

Truly. Truly. Oh, my God. Yeah. We stare at each other in shocked silence, momentarily paralyzed realization of our predicament. Thick as copal in the air between us. Like, okay, okay, girl.

I actually, I must have just, like, glazed over that, because I don't remember these descriptions. I'm just like, oh, there's no ghosts. Next page. Okay.

We've established that Marie and I are seasoned romance readers, so indeed, I can.

Smell it coming from a mile away, especially with all that cabal that's involved.

I was going to say she gets Andres help, and they spend the night together in the house, which is also extremely romantic.

She falls asleep on his shoulder. Yeah, so it's so. It's so silly. It's so silly. But.

But it's also, in this case, like, we're. We're teasing it because it is playing up a lot of these romance tropes. But in the book itself, it didn't feel particularly cheesy to me because at this point, Beatriz is hurting from being in this house, and kind of everyone there fucking hates her. The house basically hates her and is tormenting her. And she has remarkably little in the way of a help or support structure. And Andres is one of the only people who is even kind of listening to her. It's a bonus that he's hot. But, like, honestly, they could have made this, like, the. The Pacific Rim. I'm just thinking Padre guillermere del toro now. But, like, they could have just made this, like, the Pacific Rim. Like, they are just solid friends and not bring the romance element into it. But I feel like she just really needed help in that moment.

100 and see, that's. That's my thing too with this reading is like, I was. Like I said, I was kind of lukewarm on the romance, but it's. Because it felt like in a lot of ways, it was just. She just desperately needed someone who believed her and was willing to listen to her. Yeah. More than something romantic. But I do love the tropes that are in there, though.

They're really funny. Yes. Yeah, for sure. And I do have a quote. So Isabel Kenyas, in the afterword of the book, talks about this particular quote. I'll read it out. And it sort of seems to be her thesis for this. The context is that they are sitting back to back in the room after having encounters with Maria Catalina in the house, and they're just basically waiting for her to come into the room. Essentially, they're hearing her slamming doors and things like that. He says, I have a theory, Andres breathed, about houses. I think, I believe that they absorb the feelings of the people who live in them. Sometimes those feelings are so strong, you can feel them when you walk through the door. And when those feelings are negative, evil begets evil and they grow to fill the house. That is what I usually deal with. But this is different. This. His paws stretched agonizingly long. I think whatever you found in that wall, whoever is still here. And that's kind of like, I guess, the first confirmation that we get that it is Maria Catalina. But also the evil begets evil and what he usually deals with as well. And we also, earlier we got the confirmation that he's a witch as well as a priest. And that's his sort of central conflict is his God and his witchery.

Witchery.

It's essentially he inherited a lot of this from his grandmother or great grandmother. And talking about, like, she also had the site, and I don't remember if it specifically calls it out, but, like, I wonder if you could refer to him as a brujo.

Yeah. So actually touching on that, I read some interviews with Kanya, and she said that she was careful to not really point towards any specific, like, beliefs because Bruhariya is so varied. You're usually taught it by somebody. And so everybody has their own specific practices, and they're all going to be very varied. So she didn't want to, like, make it too reminiscent of any of those. And so she kind of did her own thing with it. But she does refer to him as a brujo, like, in her interviews.

Okay. Yeah. And it's something that I do appreciate in terms of, like, she sort of dances around it and it's very vague because it's also something that he's trying to keep locked away in terms of actually listening and hearing and seeing these voices of, like, spirits departed and whatnot. But in this case, like, he really needs to tap into it, to try and overcome this. I also only ever imagine him looking like the main actor from Midnight Mass, whose name I always forget, Hamish Linklater. Anytime Andreas comes up, I'm like, that's him. That's all I got. I don't play into the handsome thing. That's all I got.

Yeah, well, and I will say, too, like, with Andres, I love his chapters, like I said, and I love. He keeps referencing this darkness that's within.

Him, his dark box.

And that's not in reference.

It's his dark box.

He's a dark box.

It's a dark box inside of him. Yes.

With the darkness contained. Okay. I. Beth. Yes, it is a dark box. I'm sorry. It is a dark. He keeps referencing his dark box that lives inside of him.

Dirty almost.

I know, right? But I. I found it really interesting that he refers to it as a darkness and as this dark box that he doesn't want to draw from, because he very obviously is still, like, connected to the cultural beliefs that Titi taught him, that his grandma taught him, and he is fairly connected with the Catholic beliefs that he has now learned about. And my read on it is because of the fact that his father was. Spoiler. We're in the spoiler section. Because of the fact that his father was a rapist who raped his mother and then was, like, married to her. I believe that what he sees as his darkness is the inheritance from his father's side rather than from his mother's side.

Right.

And I believe, because he mentions, like, there possibly being a power there that could help him. And so I think that there is something culturally coming from the Spaniard side of his heritage that he is afraid to confront. And I just find it really interesting, considering the colorism where light skin is valued and, like, whiteness is valued, that he sees this Spanish heritage as the darkness that is within him versus, you know, his. His native heritage, which was. Make him a darker person. But, yeah, I just thought that was an interesting little. Little thing on there. And that was one of the things that I read a lot where people were like, it never explains what the darkness is. And I'm like, I think it does. Like, I think it does explain what the darkness is.

I think the dots are there. You just. You just draw that line. That's all it takes right there.

Yeah, for sure. Internalized colorism.

Yeah. Well, and. And internally, it's like a desire to not be.

Yeah.

To not acknowledge that side of his heritage because of the fact that his father was a monster. Like, just not wanting to delve into that.

So they spend the night, and they do the ritual at this point. Right. The first one. Do they spend the night? Do they spend the night?

This night, he creates a circle, and that's when she finds out that he's a witch. And then the next time is before he leaves for another town where they need him to help with an outbreak of measles, is when he does the. The exorcism that goes awry.

Right. So, yeah, during the exorcism that goes awry, she's told not to break the circle, but she does. But it's because he refuses to tap into that power that he has the Dark Box. He refuses to open his Dark Box.

He's got to tap his Dark Box.

I cannot. With it being the Dark Box box. I can. We just call it the Darkness.

But it's in a locked box, and he has to unlock it.

I'm gonna fight you.

He doesn't want to open his box and tap into the darkness.

Yeah, No, I. I do love a though, like, whatever happens, don't leave the circle trope because you know what's gonna happen?

She's gonna leave.

She's gonna leave.

But she does save him. So this is also where she reinforces her authority over the. Over. I mean, the house and Maria Catalina, as part of the sickness where it is worth it, her leaving the circle, I will say, like, it's. You know, I mean, Anna Luisa dies.

Fucked up the whole time that it's going on. That. Yeah, I think that she had a very good reason to do it. Because, you know, Marie, like, you were saying that once they say, whatever happens, don't leave the circle. Every audience member is like popcorn. All right, who's gonna fucking leave the circle? When is it coming? But, like, with this one, it's usually because of some foolish decision or error. And in this case, Andreas is getting, like, tossed around like a rag doll, basically, and Maria Catalan is fucking him up.

Oh, yeah. He gets his head slammed against the concrete. Like, it. Ooh.

And then that's the whole thing with Beatriz that, like, I think that she was in the right to do so. Because, I mean, if your exorc got knocked the out, then maybe don't let him just get murdered.

100. And I appreciated that because usually people leave the circle, like you said, for a stupid reason. I also argue he left the circle first when he got slammed against the.

Wall, but also vertically, he did also leave the circle.

He got out.

Oh, I know.

I know.

Goes all the way up forever.

But he didn't break it. He got. He was flung out of the circle.

Yeah.

Yeah. Maria Catnalena welcomed him to the jam. And he left the circle because of that.

Yeah, because he refused to tap into his dark box.

Yeah. And I have a note here that I. I really liked how Andres magic works because I liked how.

Yeah.

Showy and dramatic it was when he was doing the ritual. It's very good. I love it. I could see it as a.

It's extremely David Blaine.

Yes. Well, the levitation, especially.

Yeah, the levitation, but also the birds. Like, he's like. Speaks with owls. Yeah, I'm into it.

Yeah. She definitely. She definitely saved his life.

Yeah.

And this is the part with the blood vomit, which is super metal. I love it.

Yep.

Which we described earlier.

Yes.

Where she vomits blood. It's like a very evocative scene.

It is indeed. And then I love their conversation afterwards when she, like, manages to get him back to his. Because he's living now in the little chapel on. In San Ysidro. I like what he says when he wakes up, where he says. Because she says, like, oh, I should get you a doctor. And he's like, doctors aren't witches. Can't fix broken witches. I just. I loved that. That's so fun. And also, like, sad.

Also extremely romance coded.

Oh, yeah, Very.

Like, this is another section where it's like, she nurses him back to health and he's like. He doesn't remember any of it also. Which is also extremely romance because then it's like, it doesn't count. He doesn't remember.

That's so funny. Yeah, no, it's true. It's 100% true. It just makes me laugh because it's so tropey. I love it.

So it turns out he has a concussion slash memory brain injury. He doesn't remember any of the rituals, so he can't complete the exorcism. And obviously that's very disconcerting for him.

But that's not to say that nothing happened because of the failed ritual because Maria Catalina got pissed off. And her presence around the house is arguably heightened, which I felt like was very narratively fitting in terms of, like, we tried to take on the big bad once. It didn't work, and now it's stronger than ever. So you feel that desperation.

Well. And it frees her from her tethers to the house to where she's able. She's able to go to the servants.

Quarters, and that's where you find Ana Luisa Is this was my one almost kind of sort of critique. Like, it is so straight out of gothic horror textbook where people scream and find Ana Luisa is in bed with her face frozen in the rictus of a final scream, her fingers clutched on either side of her as if something scared her to death.

She was pointing at the door and.

Then she was scared to death.

Yeah, but.

Yeah, I mean, it's basically that it truly. I did roll my eyes a little bit, but I get why it was there. It felt very fitting for the setting. It's just so tropey.

That whole scene was very tropey. And like literally it describes her pointing at something and it's. And she. Yeah. Dies of fear.

I love it so much. It reminded me of the ring.

Yeah, that's good. That's fair.

So Ana Luisa is dead.

Rip. In peace.

Obviously, that's despite her terribleness. It's difficult for Paloma because that's her mother.

Ana Luisa was honestly a difficult character for me. I feel like she is one of the ones that could have benefited from more characterization.

Because she had no characterization.

Exactly.

She was just kind of an ice queen who. Who was sort of Lana's sidekick. Kind of. Not. I don't.

I feel like she was supposed to represent a stereotype that maybe I'm not party to. Like she's supposed to represent a type of person.

She. She. She gives the vibes of. I don't know how to say it non offensively, like a almost an Uncle Tom type character where she. Because of her lack of power and agency in the world as a mestiza woman who is a servant in a home for Spaniard people, she got her power the only way she could, which was by basically being Juana's like, yes, man. In a lot of ways. I got the impression that she did not like Juana, but that in order to maintain her place in the house and because of. She knew with what she knew from before that very easily she could be next on the list. So I felt like that's why she kind of clung to and stuck by Juana and was kind of mean to Beatrice was just because of her own fear for her position and going back to Juana kind of being a reflection of Beatrice. We even see that when Beatrice first meets. Not first meets, but when she's touring the house with Anna and she snaps at her in a very like, authoritarian way, in a way reminiscent to how her aunt would speak to her. Yeah, you can see that of like how she could easily fall into those same traps because As a woman in, you know, the 1800s, where you can cling to power is. Is few and far in between.

Mm.

This was during the day, wasn't it? Yes.

Well, they find her. They find her in the morning.

They find her in the morning.

That's right. They find her in the morning. But, I mean, the blood on the wall, was that during the day, or was that as night was falling?

Ooh, that was during the day. They go into the study during the day to, like, check what the damage was from the ritual, and she doesn't see it. And then Andres comes in, and the blood is on the wall. So that was during the day, right?

Yeah, yeah. So during the day, there's blood on the wall, and it says Rodolfo in blood.

So then I wonder then if that wasn't Maria, but that was the house trying to warn Beatrice about what kind of person Rodolfo is.

Maybe in blood.

I mean, you got what you got, and sometimes all you got is blood.

I guess that was okay. Sure. Just multiplying his blood.

I don't know. It felt like a very Maria Catalina thing, but it's just this did not disappear the next day. So maybe she actually had blood on hand.

It did disappear when Paloma came into the room. It wasn't there because she didn't see it.

I liked Paloma, too, by the way. Like, we haven't mentioned her.

I like Paloma. She's good.

She was a good character. Yeah.

So Paloma comes into the room and is like, I want to be useful. Like, I want to do something. Tell me to do something. And both Andres and Beatriz look at the wall, and it's gone.

Okay. You know, now that you say that. I do remember that.

Yeah. So, I mean, it could. I mean, could be the house. I. I thought it was Catalina.

It might be Maria Catalina as well, because at this point, she is free from, like, her confines. And maybe the hacienda dampens her powers during the day when she is trapped there, but, like, she's not trapped there right now. She's out and about.

I think that makes sense, because she is kind of unshackled at that point. So she's saying, hey, call up my boyfriend.

Also, the fact that Juana didn't get got because she was passed out drunk in the barn is very funny to me.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's right. So this is also where we get a bit of bonding with Paloma and Beatrice, because Paloma can see that she actually can cook, and she calls her useful, which is, like, also Kind of cuts deeply for me as a compliment.

Yeah. I. I feel like it's. It also, though, goes a long way to, like, in her aunt's house, kitchen work was what she was the only thing she was considered good enough for. But with Paloma, it's literally something that she sees as an important skill and something good to have. So it's taking that thing, which has been kind of a negative towards her, and turning it into something that is appreciated.

And Paloma says that. That Beatrice is one of them. She says she's one of. You're one of us.

Yeah.

Which I think is a turning point for her, for sure. So, yeah. They prepare a bunch of food, and it's a. A great bonding moment that I really liked.

And then Rodolfo comes back.

And then Rodolfo comes back, but not for long. Oh.

Nope.

So Rodolfo comes home, and I guess at some point in the letter, he also said that he was. They are hosting. Rodolfo is hosting multiple haciendados. And she didn't know that because there's other shit going on that is far more important than that.

Yeah.

And so she helps Paloma prepare the food and then rushes up and gets dressed and comes back down. The guests ask about Ana Luisa, and Juana's like, she's dead. And. Which is, frankly, extremely endearing. I love it.

See, once again, Juana is a bitch, But I. I love. I love how blunt she is at all times, too. It's so good.

And Beatrice smooths it over, but Rodolfo forgets later. She's like, oh, go tell Ana Luisa to do something. And she's like, brother. Anyway, she doesn't say anything, but it's like, okay, whatever. So that's completely out of touch.

Around now is when we find. Or a little bit before this, I think, is when we find out what Rodolfo did right before he gets back. Or is that.

Yeah, you're right. I think we skipped over a flashback.

Yeah.

Yeah. So Beatrice asks. Beatrice asks Paloma what happened and asks about Maria Catalina and what happened there, because I think Paloma says she deserved it or something like that.

Yeah.

And Beatrice is like, oh, I thought she was sick. I thought she had pneumonia or whatever or plague, actually. I think it changes. I think they say pneumonia.

Yeah. People get different excuses, but it's bottom line. She wasted away from some illness. Don't worry about it. Don't ask about it.

Yeah. And she's like, oh, well, no, this is what happened. And I think we get a flashback.

In Andres Flashback earlier. Yeah. He. He flashes back to meeting. His meeting with Maria Catalina for the first time, and then Paloma asking him for the herbs to help her friend because her friend has been assaulted and is now with child.

And I think they sort of dance around that. And it's confirmed later, but it's very obvious that that's what it is, that Rodolfo raped her.

Yeah, well, they do. They don't dance around it. He. Because he thinks, too, when she says it, like, she basically says, like, you know, Rodolfo attacked her and now she's pregnant. She doesn't want. She doesn't want this child. And he thinks that because he had thought that Rodolfo was different than his father, and he realizes that he's not. He's the same. This sort of person.

Yeah. Because this was a really good turning point in the book. As well as Rodolfo is. He's often painted as this. I mean, he might be a good guy, he might be decent, as Beatriz clearly, like, isn't in love with him, but he doesn't seem that. Oh, there it is. Yeah, yeah, this was his. Like, oh, Rodolfo is actually a monster, too. You just have not seen that part of him yet, I guess.

I mean, dances around. I think Paloma dances around it a little bit. I don't think Andres does. But when Paloma's talking to Beatrice about it, she says girls feared working in the house near the patron because some of those who did became pregnant against their will. When the senora found out, she was furious. She said she didn't want him leaving a trail of bastards across the countryside. Paloma set the heavy lid on the plot with a resounding clang. She got her wish. She made sure of it.

I feel like maybe she was dancing around it a little bit because she wasn't sure how Beatrice would react to finding.

Sure. Yeah. She was just trying to say it politely.

Yeah.

We do get. Later on, near the end, I think I can't remember if it was Beatrice. I think she's like, oh, he really did rape her. It's like, yeah, girl. Yeah. She told you that.

I don't remember that.

She has to say it for the camera.

Yeah, yeah.

She turns to the camera and says, actually, he was a bad guy.

Actually, rape is bad. That's where the book ends.

Jesus.

Yeah. And then she has a. A flashback for the audience where she remembers a maid fell from there once. He said, yeah, yeah, we got it.

I mean, but even then, as Marie was saying that, like, some people didn't get it.

So, no, some people did not get it. It's wild how many people are like, it didn't conclude anything. And I'm like, it concluded pretty much everything.

Yeah. Yeah. We get that whole backstory and Andres part when he's remembering. We get some flashbacks from his chapters from two years ago where he was banished from the house. And it's a big deal that he's back, but we already knew that.

But I think it's just providing context for a lot of the things that the book kind of blazes over in the early chapters and then fills in those blanks later. Maybe a little too far later, but, like, it's there.

I do wonder with the divide of Andres chapters and Beatrice's chapters. Like, I know that uneven divides in, like, multiple narrator books aren't abnormal, but I almost wonder if maybe after a first pass, Kanye was like, oh, I think I need to, like, have someone who can fill in some of these gaps and kind of added in his chapters, because they do feel very disconnected from everything else in a lot of ways.

Yeah. There's a few flashbacks, kind of. They're flashback to backslash, as I think Andreas is performing a few lore dumps, because there wasn't really a convenience.

And I think it's better than communicate them, like, hearing a whole dialogue thing from Paloma to be like, this is what happened.

Oh, yeah. Or Beatrice finding a journal.

Or they could have had Maria Catalina just be like, this is how I did it. And, like, that's how she.

Oh, my God, no. And then we get the saw. We get the saw flashback where it, like, goes back and, like, recontextualizes everything.

That we saw come before it. We do kind of get Maria Catalina because she gives Beatrice a vision of, like, her being murdered later.

Yeah.

Which is fine. It's not my favorite thing, but it's fine. It's whatever. I don't know how else you would.

Do it, but visions of getting murdered. Three out of five stars.

So, yeah, Rodolfo comes home, and then that night, Beatrice is like, it's not gonna happen. I'm on my period. I have a headache. No, thank you. And he's like, okay. And doesn't do anything, which I guess, good for him.

So the reason that he preyed on these women, these servants, is because he didn't see.

They weren't people.

They. Yeah, they're not people. They're a lower caster than him. They. They don't matter. Whereas. And Beatrice, despite being mestiza, is. Is still considered like higher class, quote unquote. And so I, I honestly just felt like it spoke more to his racism that he did not attack her when she denied him the way he would have, probably any of those other women.

I guess classism as well. I. I would have thought it would have been easier because if she said anything, he'd be like, she's my wife. I can do whatever I want.

That's fair. I, I kind of got the vibe that, like, he found it would have been quote, unquote, below him to do that to a higher class woman. You know what I mean? But that just vibes, honestly, more than anything stated, it's less.

Less about her and more about his own perception of himself.

Sure, exactly.

That makes sense. So Beatrice is attacked in the house that night.

Yeah.

And I guess because she's in bed with Maria, Catalina's husband.

Yeah.

She is attacked and she flees the house and goes to Andres, and Andres takes care of her that night. Also very romantic.

So I don't know if either of you read anything from Kanye about like her inspirations for the book or anything, but the whole hot priest thing, she does reference Fleabag, which I don't know.

If you've ever seen that. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's so funny.

I love it.

Before that I will mention there was a chapter with Andres where he sees Rodolfo and Juana fighting. And it's. It's spelled out that she's a bastard.

That she's a bastard. And interestingly enough, she's a bastard via her mother. Like her mom had an extramarital affair that resulted in her. Which I just find interesting considering, like, you know, the bastards that have resulted from Rodolfo's.

Yeah.

It makes me wonder. I'm not familiar with the Costa system that would have been in place, but I do kind of wonder too, if Wanda would have had a vested interest in not letting his paternal bastards roam around too. If maybe in kind of a ranking of hierarchy that even if he died, it might go to his bastard kid as opposed to her, who is kind of a bastard once removed, either.

Yeah, no, it does. In patriarchal systems like that, typically, even if the child is a bastard, he would rank higher than a female relative.

That was my thought, just thinking about it in terms of the pure patriarchal lineage.

Yeah, that makes sense.

And that would make sense why she would. Yeah.

So we get that confirmation and he slaps Juana.

So cool, man. Rodolfo, what a. What a. What a guy. This is where I had my note about how much he Reminded me of Virgil.

Oh, yeah. Gothic.

And I got those vibes a bit from him, like, just in terms of like, oh, look at me. I'm so awesome. Like his. His machismo and everything. Like from the beginning kind of read as that. And also his letter to her after she asks for an exorcism. And the priests then write back and are like, hey, your wife's stuff. Psycho. She wanted an exorcism. And he's like, don't piss off the church anymore.

Yeah, yeah. So we get the romance scene with Andres and Beatrice in the chapel. She's says that she's gonna sleep on a pew, and he brings her blankets. He says, rest. I said, I will wake you before dawn and escort you back to the house when it is tolerable. I almost said safe, but I wondered if it ever would would be. It was as if she heard this or saw the thoughts written across my face. You should rest too, she said. Your head, it will heal. God willing, I said then, soft and determined. I will not leave you gay. Extremely cheesy.

Extremely cheesy. Extremely romance. So we all got the vibe that Beatrice is somewhat psychic, right?

Little bit. Little bit.

Because earlier when he first, like hits his head and stuff and she's freaking out, she like flashes back to him as a child hiding under the pews at the church, which he never told her about, but is something that we see in one of his early chapters that he would hang out in the church a lot.

A part of me wondered, because we don't really see it in contexts outside of Andreas, if that's like him having a little bit of spillover from his abilities and things. Especially like whenever he gets welcome to the jam and is knocked unconscious, there's a little bit of she's kind of picking up his radio waves.

That's possible.

He's bad at controlling those parts of himself. So he's not. She's not maybe reading his mind, but he's accidentally Professor Xing on her and, like, she's getting some inner monologue.

Just like Maria Catalina.

Just like Maria Catalina.

Showing. Showing her his. Showing her her murder.

Showing his.

Her showing.

Sewing her murders to them. Her. The other reason why I was kind of leaning towards her also possibly having some sort of powers was her level of, like, control over the house, like the hacienda, being willing to listen to her. I kind of thought maybe it kind of picked up on that, but it would make sense if it's spillover from Andres as far as those memories go.

Yeah. And I think it also does have to do with that authority. I think the house does see her as, like, one of them and is. You know, she has that authority.

More than that, I think it's because the entire book is her trying to stake ownership and claim and control over this. And, like, the house is fighting back, essentially, or at least Maria Catalina is fighting back.

The house is accepting.

Yes. And I think that it's final. Like, the house is recognizing that because it's like Rodolfo, he could give two shits about this hacienda. It's like, yeah, this is my dad's place. It's kind of, like, falling into disrepair. But, yeah, sure, go pick out some new blinds. Have fun, girl. And like, Juana, everyone else is moving away from it. And I think that Beatrice is one of the only ones who has tried to improve it and help. It is another reason, too, that you're getting a little bit of that kind of tacit agreement and recognition between the two.

Rodolfo's dead.

Rip in peace. Actually. No, don't. He was a fuckhead.

Yeah. Rodolfo's dead, and. Which looks bad because Beatrice spent the night in the chapel. So she comes back in and Paloma's like, you gotta put some clothes on.

She's stark naked. I'm joking. She's in her.

She's in her jimmy jam, which is basically nude.

It's 1800s nude.

I know, right? A shift. Scandalous.

Yeah. No shoes. So she puts some pants on or whatever and sees her husband and doesn't want to go into the bedroom and basically immediately wanna blames her.

Yeah. She realizes that it was Juana. And then Juana immediately turns around and Spider man meme points at her.

So, yeah, she gets locked in the storeroom, and Andres and Paloma and Joseph plot to free her. And they realize what's going on. And Andres brings up that Juana's a bastard and that this was definitely her, but they need proof. And they're like, let's go through her paperwork. And she's like, great plan, guys.

They've got some, like, Scooby Doo hijinks going on while Juana's climbing around on roofs like a psycho.

Yeah. So night night starts to fall, and Beatrice is like, I'm in this fucking storeroom. I'm gonna die. She tries to make a deal with. With Maria Catalina, which kind of works. Kind of.

Yeah. This is one part where I did find really interesting. I found it so interesting that Maria Catalina was more, I guess, upset with. With Beatrice as, like, the new Wife of Rodolfo versus Juana, the woman who both killed her and Rodolfo. Like, I was like, girl, get your priorities straight. Like your murderer is right there.

I was reading that more as sort of that bitter, spiteful spirit. Is she. She wasn't exactly all there and was just more simplistic and it was just like, no, this is the thing that I hate. She died because Rodolfo kept just raping other women and being disloyal to her. And so she sees Beatriz as like another version of that. And I think that's why she always zeroes in on her. Even though Juana is her real enemy at the end of the day.

Yeah, that makes sense. She maintains her hate for Andres. Yeah, that's for sure. Oh, yeah, yeah. So Juana cuts open the roof with a machete.

I'm sorry, just the picture of this woman climbing around on ropes is just. I cannot.

With a machete.

Spider wanna. Spider wanna. Does whatever a spider gonna.

Ridiculous. And yeah, so she cuts open the roof and falls. Falls through. Because I don't know how else she thought that was gonna go.

He is dying.

No, it's such a. Like, it's such a Three Stooges like scene in the middle of such a high stakes moment of this chick being like, I know what I'll do. I'll sneak in through the roof where no one will see me. Just eats it. Like, it's so funny.

It is. It is very like, scenario. Like, I could see that happening in a scenario where you're like, oh, the person's trapped in this room and you want to kill them. So, like, we're going to set a fire. Okay. How are you going to do that? We're going to climb on the roof.

I'm going to cut the roof and drop down. Crit fail.

Yeah.

No, cut a hole in the roof and drop a fire. Like a firebomb. Like, yeah, set fire to it through the roof. And then it's like, yeah, crit fail. Now you're in there too. And the room's on fire.

So good. It's so good.

Beatrice tries to help her. She is rewarded by being slashed with a machete. And Andres comes in and saves her. The house burns.

No, I'm sorry. You have to. You have to. You have to read your full sentence about Andres right there before.

All right. Andres. Andres. Oh my God. It's such a good scene though. Actually. It is.

It is literally a very good scene. But the way you wrote it.

I know. I forgot about that. So Andres, like, Speaks to an owl. He hears an owl. It's, like, so dramatic. It's.

You're doing a great job selling it, believe me.

It's. It's peak. It's peak romance, like, romantasy in a lot of ways, truly.

I was getting, like, Beastmaster slash, like, Xena, like, that kind of level of, I don't know, drama. Because he speaks to an owl, and then he, like, sees the ladder against the house, and he's like, oh, no, she went to the roof and goes in and saves her. And he. He embraces his dark box.

He caresses his dark box.

He releases. He.

He gently pries the lid off his dark box.

And exudes. He releases his tentacles from the dark box.

Spills out of his dark box. Really?

The tentacles come out. Tendrils of darkness. Darkness come out, explode out of his box.

Explodes from his dark box.

With the dark box.

And he's like a perfect marriage between God and my dark box.

Oh, no. Oh, no.

Yep.

Yep. That is word for word what happens.

It's verbatim. Honestly, it's like I'm reading the book again.

It's like I'm rereading the book.

This is why you have to read the book before you listen.

It's really true. You really do need to, because what.

Are you even doing here?

Oh, you fool. You absolute buffoon.

Because that's what happens. And then he saves her. He's like, maria, Catalina, you gotta cut this out. And she's like, okay. And then, you know, she leaves or whatever.

This is all.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

And then. And then. Mama has a house now.

Mama has a house now. That's another JSX, like, machina kind of deal. I wasn't totally jss.

Casa.

I wasn't, like, entirely on board for that. I was like, oh, that's convenient. But, like, it's. It's good. I'm glad. I'm glad she has a house. And I'm glad that I supported the choice of Beatrice to leave the San Isidro because it wasn't really her house. It actually, like, did technically belong to Paloma and Andres.

Yeah. The family that had lived there for generations before the Spaniards came and were, like, Soros now. Actually, this is exactly.

Do you have a flag?

This is my map.

We have a flag. It's very fancy. No, I did like that she left. I actually didn't like that she asked him to leave with her. Because, like, girl, that's where he belongs. His people need him.

Yeah.

I do think it Was a nice, bittersweet ending. That after this resolution, there is that part that I was just like, oh, yeah, now they can be happy. Oh, well, they are different people. Their lives are going in different trajectories. And I thought that it handled that in a nice, mature fashion. That, like, okay, I'm gonna do me. You do you. And they had that mutual respect in the end. And, like, even though it was bittersweet, it felt good for a finale.

Yeah, I agree.

We also learn that Rodolfo wasn't giving his letters to her mom. She's like, oh, fuck you, buddy.

Did you expect him to be like, nah, he was not doing that?

I was so mad, because the whole book, she is, like, agonizing over the fact that, like, her choice has, like, driven a wall between her and her mother. And she's so, like. She's like, if only she would just talk to me, then we could figure this out. And she was trying. And Rodolpho's.

She was trying. Yeah, Rodolpho's an ass. So, yeah, it was like both of them were like, are you mad at me?

And you're not projecting there at all. No way.

Excuse me.

Both of them are. Are you. You and your anxious friend talking to each other?

Are you.

Did I make you mad? Did I upset you?

And your mom says, oh, I'm so sorry. I forgot to respond to your text.

This is pretty much what happens.

Speaking of. I liked at the end that Andres, like, double text her. Like, he sends a letter, and then he's like, oh, also, I'm gonna send this other letter again because I didn't tell you how I felt.

You might call it a P. S. I love you letter.

I. Get out.

Ah, damn it. I. I lost all of our fun.

That's a step too far. Oh, and then it ends with him getting a letter back. Right? But we don't find out. We don't find out what's in the letter.

Which is fine. I don't care.

I like that.

I think the story's resolved. And it felt like this was a chapter in these people's lives, and then this chapter is ending, and both of their lives are continuing in their own directions. So it felt like a solid resolution, but not like a screen goes black. I forgot everything that happened. Like, this story is done.

Yeah. It's very interesting because it's kind of a. It meets halfway between your, like, traditional gothic romance, where one of them would die, like, usually. But also, we don't get. You don't get your stereotypical Hollywood ending where they end right off into the sunset together. I. I like they end up together.

An hea. Would you call that an hea?

An hea. What is that?

Is that a Canadian thing?

A happily ever after.

Oh.

Oh. But this is not a happily ever after.

I know. That's what I'm saying. The Hollywood ending would be the hea, but this is not that.

Beth, stop trying to make HEA happen. It's not going to happen.

Yeah.

Sound off in the comments.

The difference between me and you, Beth, is that I don't read fan fiction.

The difference between shots fire all thousands of you listeners fire off in the comments about how HEA is not a thing.

Overall feelings about the book, Beth?

I still. I still loved it. I think my. My estimation went down from like a 5 to a 4 just based on the cheese factor that I didn't like. I wasn't picking up on on the first read necessarily. I still loved it though. I would read it again. Highly recommend.

Lex, are we rating things on a five point factor? I usually do ten. Fine.

In this case five point.

All right. I'll give it a solid 4.25 out of ten out of. God damn it. I can't do math.

You're on a thousand scale.

Yes.

Okay, perfect.

I give it a solid 425.25 out of five.

Beth has to get bullying back in to get back in.

That's exactly what's happening. She's getting me back right now. I think that this is a rock solid horror novel and also has these romance elements too. As someone who doesn't read any romance like that felt fine. It felt like a connection. It could have been platonic, but it wasn't and it didn't really bother me or feel that distracted. It's fun to poke fun of like at this time. But this is now my second time reading through the book. I always recommend it. I think it is very enjoyable. I. You're not going to have. You're not going to regret reading it.

Yeah. And for me I. I fully agree with both of your analysis of. Of the book. Overall I'd give it a solid. Yeah. I'd say 4.25 is probably right where I am.

850 out of.

I do find.

I'm gonna take my headphones off and just keep talking.

The one thing that I I didn't like actually was the kind of the comparison to Mexican gothic going into it just because I felt like other than being gothic novels set in Mexico, they were very different books. And I feel like sometimes it does a little bit of a disservice when people go in with, like, an extra expectation of it's gonna be like, this book meets this other book instead of letting something just be what it is. A lot of the reviews that I read, like, heavily compared the two and were, like, very, like, Mexican Gothic rules and this sucked. Or this rules and Mexican Gothic.

Yes. Like, that's. If you're purely comparing them because of the setting, like.

Exactly.

They take place in old timey Mexico. That's it. The rest of it is they're very different stories. Yeah.

100%.

We'll recommend them as similar books because they have similarly headstrong female protagonists.

Yeah.

I hate to tell you, September House got fucking no comparison to this, except it also focuses on a spooky house and a headstrong female protagonist. Like, they can be similar without necessitating direct comparisons.

100%. So I would say that if comparisons like that have been stopping you from reading this, for whatever reason, disregard them and just go in and read it, because it is a book that is, like, worth reading. Like I said, for a. Especially for a debut novel. Isabel Kanye's voice is so sure and so strong in her descriptions and in how lyrical her prose is throughout the book. Like, it's. It's definitely worth a read.

Yeah. If you haven't read it already, which you should. Have you?

Yeah.

Then what are you doing here again?

What are you doing here?

Go home.

Go home.

Is it time to spin the wheel?

God, it's time to spin.

Oh.

And the result is movie, book, movie, which is very fun, and I'm so glad that it is not, once again, DNF graveyard, because I would cry. The next book that I would like to read is the Ruins by Scott Smith. Oh, that's interesting. The book is written by Scott Smith and the movie was directed by Carter Smith. Are they related? Is it a. What's that called?

Find out next time listeners find out.

Anyway. The Ruins by Scott Smith. I have not read this book before, but I have wanted to because I personally am a big fan of the movie. I know a lot of people aren't huge fans of it. We might have to have a certain somebody come back for that.

I'm so happy for you that you like that movie.

I love that you like that movie. Love it.

I love it for you. Yeah. I'm just excited about Shawn Ashmore because I'm always on the Sean Ashmore watch. Every single time he shows up, I have to say, hey, that's Sean Ashmore every single time.

Yeah, I. I do the same. Except I call him Iceman because I never remember that his name is Sean Icemore or Sean Ashmore. Sean Iceman.

Sean Iceman.

Hey, Lex, where can people find you if they want to see what you have going on?

Oh, well, you can come visit us at the H. West Memorial Mortuary and Laboratories. If you search RPG reanimators online. We've got a website, we got a blue sky, it's all over the place where you can hear us, listen to and review different horror tabletop RPG games, talk about our GM philosophies.

All right, everybody, thanks for listening. If you want more from us, our social media is in the show notes as well as a link to our discord where you can join the the conversation and suggest books.

So, audience, why don't you get out there and commit some David behavior.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Do you know what we forgot to do for this episode, though?

What did we forget to do?

Horse watch.

Oh, you're so right. We also forgot last episode.

That's fine. There weren't that many horses, but there was a donkey.

There was a burrow. It was a very good burrow.

Yeah, that's it. That's all I have to say.

I. I think it's kind of weird to have like a henda like that doesn't have horses. Right? Like that's a little weird.

Well, it's the hacienda, not the horse.